New here, need camera/lens advice, please rate my security plan

[synthwave]

Hi everyone, i just recently moved into a new house. I'm looking to invest in the security, but i'm an amateur.
I did some research and my colleagues recommend Dahua.
So i got my sights set on the following gear (from Aliexpress, the same costs 100-200 euro's per item more where i live) :
Dahua NVR4108-8P-4KS2 (POE, 8mp, 8 channels)
4x Dahua IPC-HDW4631C-A eyeball camera (POE, 6 megapixel, IR 50m, IP67 waterproof, built in mic - 2.8mm, 3.6mm or 6mm fixed lens)

Seems like a pretty decent beginner setup, of course there are better camera's out there but these are like $49 each, and the NVR is $152.

The dillemma: these camera's all have a fixed lens, which means i have to choose the lens wisely.
My goal is to see who comes to the door and who damages my car.
So probably best to get 2 camera's on each side then? 1x 6mm and 1x 2.8 mm?
Please rate the following setup idea:

Front:


Back (1x 2.6mm, 1x 6mm):


Distance from window to the cars is approx 7 meters / 22 feet, picture taken with android smartphone

 

[synthwave]

Is the following an accurate representation of how it would work?

 

[SouthernYankee]

-----------------------------------
Welcome to the forum.

I would mount the 6MM lens next to the door. Get a good face view of the person approaching the door. The 6MM camera is mounted to high, move it down to 2 Meters if possible. Mount the 2.8 mm over view camera it the center.
Use 4MP dahua starlight cameras.
A mic mounted on a camera on the second story is useless.

This is a good start, good that you posed pictures.

read, Study, plan before spending money.
----------------------------------------------
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
4) Do not use wifi cameras.
5) Do not use cloud storage
6) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
7) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
8) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
9) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
10) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
11) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
12) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
13) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
14) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
15) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
16) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
17) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart


Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[SouthernYankee]

if you are interested in International Dahua cameras, a forum member sells dahua (and some Hikvision) and ships world wide. You can read some of the members recommendations on his service. He also provides cameras to other forum member for evaluation and reviews.
You can email him for a quote, or purchase from his Aliexpress store or his Amazon store. The cameras are fully upgradable, he posts upgrade software when available.

Current supply may be limited do to the Covid-19. Do to Covid-19 shipping has also gotten slow. I recommend emailing andy

Andy
@EMPIRETECANDY
kingsecurity2014@163.com
Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: EmpireTech Andy
Andy's AliExpress store: Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing prodcuts with exclusive discounts on AliExpress
Andy's Amazon store: Amazon.com

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[synthwave]

Thank you so much SouthernYankee, this is helpful information. I might contact this Andy.
If it's not too much to ask, could you maybe edit my pictures in paint to show where you would personally hang the cameras?

 

[mat200]

Thank you so much SouthernYankee, this is helpful information. I might contact this Andy.
If it's not too much to ask, could you maybe edit my pictures in paint to show where you would personally hang the cameras?

Welcome @synthwave

Before you start drilling any holes, test the various potential locations using a test rig setup ( bucket and wood beam section ) to see if the view is what you want.

I like my front door camera at eye level for best results.

 

[synthwave]

Thank you mat, isn't a eye level camera easier to reach / more prone to vandalism though?
I was thinking about going with a doorbell camera for eye level capturing (in the future)
Can you also show me what you mean exactly with bucket and wood beam method? What is the bucket for?

 

[mat200]

Thank you mat, isn't a eye level camera easier to reach / more prone to vandalism though?
I was thinking about going with a doorbell camera for eye level capturing (in the future)
Can you also show me what you mean exactly with bucket and wood beam method? What is the bucket for?

HI @synthwave

Q: isn't a eye level camera easier to reach / more prone to vandalism though?
A: yes, the camera will be more accessible to vandals.
The camera's job is to get a potential ID image for evidence imho to any attacker / thief. I try to always have anyone attempting the reach the front door go through at least 2 camera FOV zones to increase my chances at a good ID image. Remember the best protected cameras from Vandals will be the cameras sitting in your closet in their original boxes - so there is a balance we need to accomplish.
For my set up you can not vandalize a camera easily without at least me getting a chance to get images of the attacker(s) from 2 or more cameras. I am willing to have to replace any door eye level camera should a vandal hit it. Most of the issues are typically with thieves attempting to steal from mailboxes, porches, and parked cars.

With the Pandemic it is even more important to me to have a chance at getting a good eye level image - hoping to capture the best facial ID image possible even with someone wearing a mask.

Have to also setup a good alarm system.

Search the site for "test rig" and you should find a nice example or 2.

 

[wtimothyholman]

Isn't a eye level camera easier to reach / more prone to vandalism though?

Back when good megapixel IP cameras cost $1000 or more, protecting the camera mattered. You could generally afford only one good camera, and the camera itself was even worth stealing.

Nowadays cameras are cheap enough to put in harm's way, and you can afford to install several of them. In my opinion, the best defense against camera vandalism is having multiple cameras in plain view of the potential perpetrator. When he sees three or four cameras pointed at him, he'll realize that breaking one camera won't do much good; he'll be recorded by the others.

If someone wants to steal or break one of my $120 cameras, so be it. I'll already have recorded him from three or four other viewpoints. I'll even have the license plate of his car. In practice what I have found is that the most infamous door checkers in my neighborhood now seem to avoid my block and my cars completely. I've watched one of them walk by my house, staring at my cameras, and not touch my cars. Then as soon as he gets to my neighbor's house, he tries opening the car doors. Someone, somewhere must be telling him about the high-resolution images of him that I have posted on Nextdoor.

 

[CCTVCam]

For me personally, it's too easy for someone to come over the fence or from the other neighbours garden. I think I'd put the 6mm just above the doorbell looking out towards you car and the 2.8mm on the brick outcrop between your house and the neighbour to your right (left in the photo) with the drive without a boundry fence. I'd point the 2.8mm across the front of the house trying to capture all of the window and door if possible. If anyone is going to break in its' going to be the door or window. Pointing them both down the driveway protects the drive but leaves the house vulnerable as you can walk down your neighbours driveway and under the 2.8mm camera and outside of the view of the 6mm camera and break in unseen through the window. Either that, or put up a high fence to the front between yourself and your neighbour. At the back I'd do a similar arrangement although the drain pipe is a major issue without a 3rd camera as it allows easy access to your over view camera which can simply then be pointed out of the way. I'd say the ideal layout would be 3 cameras back and front - 2 crossed overiew - 1 at each side and a 6mm at eye level down the middle. That way every camera protects the other camera and having 2 cameras facing across prevents people from coming in from the side. Just my opinion.

 

[SouthernYankee]

 

[synthwave]

Thanks for the replies. Since you're all suggesting hanging the camera near my doorbell:
Could a smart doorbell give me the same or comparable features as a dahua 4mp starlight camera? With the added benefit of anwsering the door.
Does there exist a "starlight-like quality doorbell" with POE and a 6mm lens IR that works with NVR? Or should i just stick with the camera's for now and look into a doorbell in the future? I'm sort of on a tight budget.

 

[wtimothyholman]

Could a smart doorbell give me the same or comparable features as a dahua 4mp starlight camera? With the added benefit of anwsering the door.
Does there exist a "starlight-like quality doorbell" with POE and a 6mm lens IR that works with NVR? Or should i just stick with the camera's for now and look into a doorbell in the future? I'm sort of on a tight budget.

Smart doorbells tend to be pricey for the image quality they provide. You certainly won't find one that even begins to touch the performance of a Dahua Starlight camera.

Stick with the Dahua cameras, but I'd keep this in mind: Wyze will be releasing a doorbell cam sometime this year or next (it is in their product map). It will probably be much cheaper than a Ring or Nest doorbell camera. You might want to consider buying one of those, just because a doorbell camera draws the attention of a thief. Let it do that, while your Dahua cameras record him.

 

[djernie]

I just don't see you getting a good identification of someone down near the street unless you have one varifocal camera that you can zoom in to that street area. You should have an overview camera and a varifocal camera. I know your on a budget, so buy one this month, then save up and buy the other one in a month or two. As far as being stolen no one on here has ever reported any camera being stolen or vandalized. My cameras are so low you could jump up and smash them if you want. But i will have you on another camera. Here i have two starlight models. On the left Varifocal (ipc t2231t-zs) On the right overview camera no varifocal (HDW 2431t-as) this one has a microphone. Third camera is a PTZ (sd49225t-hn). Any one can just reach up and grab that if they wanted, but i have had no issues.

 

[djernie]

Now here are pics from the zoomed in camera (varifocal) and the overview camera.

 

[djernie]

Now here are the pictures from the same camera but using blue iris to zoom in. Over view camera zoomed in first, and the zoomed in camera second picture. As you can see when you zoom in the picture with blue iris, the zoomed in varifocal camera gives you the best image, because the original image is already zoomed closer to the subject.

 

[synthwave]

Would layout below also work? The 6mm camera above doorbell, but just out of reach of vandals.
Also, is 2.8mm or 3.5 better for the middle?

And does anyone have experience with Motion sensor floodlights by any chance to combine with these camera's?
For example should i get normal floodlights (for example 50 watt) or solar powered? (needs new battery every 4 years and sun must shine for charging)

 

[djernie]

You should choose the image size for the middle based on what you want to see. I use the solar motion lights for the sides of my home, because there is no electrical in that area. The front and back i am using these and they are the best for my situation, as i want it as bright as possible so my starlight cameras can shine at night.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR6LLAI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[djernie]

If it was me i would go with a 2.8 and a varifocal which would allow me to zoom right down to the area around my car. Which would get good identification. If they are not wearing a hoodie and glasses.

 

[djernie]

Also check this out, it has good information about what your looking for.

Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?

This video gives good information. Has good example of overview camera and zoomed in camera.

ipcamtalk.com