sebastiantombs
Known around here
Start out by reading the information in the WiKi at the top of the page, in the blue bar. Pay special attention to the Cliff Notes and read it all on a real computer, not a tablet or smart phone.
Price is always important, but remember you get what you pay for. I would not rely on motion detection from cameras only so 24/7 recording, or continuous after working hours at the very least would be a good idea. If you actually want security, not just surveillance, you need an alarm system first.
thanks for answer, I may asked in a wrong way... I need surveilance system, and i was thinkink to use 4or5mp cams. I have readed a lot diferent info about diferent systems, but I need some advice. becouse at that place I just want to install and forget about it and with some countings for just 4 of those I need over 30TB of storage space. so csn you give some advice?
Start out by reading the information in the WiKi at the top of the page, in the blue bar. Pay special attention to the Cliff Notes and read it all on a real computer, not a tablet or smart phone.
Price is always important, but remember you get what you pay for. I would not rely on motion detection from cameras only so 24/7 recording, or continuous after working hours at the very least would be a good idea. If you actually want security, not just surveillance, you need an alarm system first.
IAmATeaf
Known around here
Why don’t you sit down and work out how much it would cost for what you have described for and NVR, Synology NAS and maybe even a BI system and start from there. That’s exactly what I did, then look at the features of each and then what you might want to do in terms of future expansion.
In terms of cams, read the reviews, again that’s what I did, then watch videos of the various systems in use.
In terms of cams, read the reviews, again that’s what I did, then watch videos of the various systems in use.
sebastiantombs
Known around here
If your interested on low light cameras, look at the reviews and comments on the 5442, 4MP with a 1/1.8" sensor and in the $180USD range, series from Dahua. If low light is not a problem, there are other decent 4MP cameras that are less expensive but use 1/2.7" sensors in the $125USD range. Again, there are lots of reviews to look at here.
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Hey, I try to piggyback ride this thread: I would be way more curious about the features and usability of both platforms.
The Synology Surveillance Station officialy supports Dahua Cameras and IVS. Is there an upside when using an official Dahua NVR? More features/available settings? (The lack of POE on a NAS and per camera license aside.)
Is the Dahua NVR better/easier to use? Based on my reading the Synology App Ecosystem seems to be more mature? e.g. mobile push notifications on motion.
The Synology Surveillance Station officialy supports Dahua Cameras and IVS. Is there an upside when using an official Dahua NVR? More features/available settings? (The lack of POE on a NAS and per camera license aside.)
Is the Dahua NVR better/easier to use? Based on my reading the Synology App Ecosystem seems to be more mature? e.g. mobile push notifications on motion.
SouthernYankee
IPCT Contributor
=======================
In my opinion the primary cost in a surveillance system is the installation time and the time to configure it correctly. The actual hardware cost is low.
If you try to go the cheapest route you will end up doing it twice.
READ STUDY PLAN Before spending money.
I use Blue Iris for home use.
If you go for an NVR, get the NVR and cameras from the same Manufacture.
===========================
My standard welcome to the forum message.
Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.
Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.
Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.
Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.
Other dahua 4MP starlight
My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A
If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post
Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras
This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...
Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess
Hey @SouthernYankee I am trying to read, study and plan. That is why I am trying to understand the key difference between a Dahua NVR and Synology Surveillance Station. What disadvantages/advantages does the one bring over the other.
It is obvious that the Forum is obsessed with Blue Iris, but in my case, running a 24/7 Windows machine is currently not an option. That is why i narrowed down the two possibilities for me. Synology or Dahua NVR. And as you said, the setup is what takes most of the time, that's why i want to pick the right one out of my choices.
Oh and I have read the wiki, multiple times, there is no section that answers my question.
It is obvious that the Forum is obsessed with Blue Iris, but in my case, running a 24/7 Windows machine is currently not an option. That is why i narrowed down the two possibilities for me. Synology or Dahua NVR. And as you said, the setup is what takes most of the time, that's why i want to pick the right one out of my choices.
Oh and I have read the wiki, multiple times, there is no section that answers my question.
BORIStheBLADE
Getting comfortable
Since running a PC 24/7 is out of the question your two options aren't bad but I will say the Dahua UI leaves a lot to be desired with their apps and NVR. That is why I went to Blue Iris.. IF IVS is what you're after I would check what users experience has been with Synology..
sebastiantombs
Known around here
I don't use Synology but I think that you're stuck to two or four cameras for "free". After that it's a per camera fee.
If you can run a Synology device or an NVR, I'm having a hard time understanding why a Windows PC to support Blue Iris is a problem. A used, business class, machine for about $200 will come complete with a Win10 license. An NVR, or the PC will need hard drives for storage. The PC would need a PoE switch, and a BI license, but they aren't all that expensive. The flexibility of BI far exceeds what an NVR or Synology are capable of.
If you can run a Synology device or an NVR, I'm having a hard time understanding why a Windows PC to support Blue Iris is a problem. A used, business class, machine for about $200 will come complete with a Win10 license. An NVR, or the PC will need hard drives for storage. The PC would need a PoE switch, and a BI license, but they aren't all that expensive. The flexibility of BI far exceeds what an NVR or Synology are capable of.
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mat200
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FYI - Synology NAS has been covered here numerous times...
executive summary:
1) Costs more per camera
2) NAS often have more affordable CPU setups - and thus less processing power
Thus most members decide not to go with a Synology NAS
executive summary:
1) Costs more per camera
2) NAS often have more affordable CPU setups - and thus less processing power
Thus most members decide not to go with a Synology NAS
aristobrat
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Synology is a VMS and one nice thing about VMS is that they're a little more camera brand agnostic than NVRs are. If you buy a NVR from Company A then decide a few years down the road you want to buy a camera from Company B that has some new cool advanced AI motion-detection feature that reduces false positives, you're almost guaranteed that the NVR won't be able to access the advanced features on that camera. With a VMS like Synology or BI, you at least have a chance. Take Dahua IVS, an advanced camera feature. Granted, Synology users here had been filing support tickets asking for this feature for over four years, but Synology finally added it. IMO you'll never see a NVR not made by Dahua support the advanced features built into many Dahua cameras. Replace Dahua with Hikvision in that last sentence and it'll still read correct.
NVRs generally don't have enough processing power to do their own motion detection; they rely on the cameras to detect motion and notify the NVR when that happens. This means with a NVR your motion detection abilities will vary by your cameras capabilities. For example, my older Dahua 5231s and newer 5442s both have IVS, but only the newer 5442s have the AI filter that can only trigger when motion is identified as a person and/or vehicle. Using a NVR, I don't have a way to supplement the older 5231s to make them better. Most VMS give you the option to additionally monitor the camera stream and run another lay of motion detection. My experience using an older Synology for this wasn't good -- one camera overwhelmed the processor, slowing down the Synology to where NAS-related things were affected. Also, Synology's built-in motion detection (again, this was a few years back) wasn't any better than than the basic motion detection built into cameras ... i.e. wasn't even at IVS level. Maybe that's improved. Blue Iris has some pretty robust motion detection features that can usually meet or beat Dahua IVS. This can be handy because while Dahua cameras often have multiple features like IVS, People Counting, Face Detection, Heat Maps, etc, the camera itself can usually only be configured to do one of them. So you often can't have it do IVS and Face Detection at the same time. With a VMS, you can have the VMS do IVS-like motion detection (if it's capable, I know BI can) and then have the camera configured for Face Detection. There are also at least two open projects floating around in threads here where you can install an AI engine on your BI PC and have BI alert images filtered through there.
If you want your camera system to interface with other systems in your house (like one of the many open-source home automation systems), doing that with a NVR is a lot harder. VMS like Synology/BI can take custom actions when a camera senses motion, like doing an HTTP GET/POST across your network to your home automation system with a parameter in the URL that lets it know which camera had motion. This makes it possible for HA systems to do an automation like "if the driveway camera senses motion after dark and the outside lights aren't already on, turn them on for give minutes, then turn them off". BI will even let you run any script or executable, which makes what you can do when motion happens pretty much limitless. I haven't seen a NVR that can send alerts across the network like this. There's the option of paying a bit more for a model that has IO ports on the back, then physically wire those ports in a manner that whatever system you're connecting to can read them. Even then, the NVR can usually only generically say "motion was detected" and can't be specific as to which camera detected motion, which limits a lot of the usefullness IMO. I have seen some folks setup a script on another box running 24/7 that polls the NVR or cameras for motion detection and then forwards that over to the HA system.
I started with a Synology for a few months back in 2016, moved to a Dahua NVR for a few months, then have been on Blue Iris for the last several years. When I started my camera system, I absolutely did not want an always-on PC involved in the project. Since I already owned the Synology and it came with two free camera licenses, made sense to start there. It did not support IVS back then and I could not tune basic motion detection to reduce false alerts worth a damn. I also didn't care for the smartphone app UI or speed, but hopefully that's changed since then. When I added my third camera I had to choose between paying for a Synology license or buying a Dahua NVR. I really really really wanted more reliable motion detection (IVS) so I went with the NVR. IVS significantly cut down the amount of false alerts. I disliked the Dahua smartphone app even more -- it was slower and more cumbersome to see if any recent motion had been detected. The NVR was a newer model back then and had some firmware teething issues (all since resolved), so as a temporary backup to the NVR while the issues were being worked I installed the Blue Iris demo on an old PC that was laying around. When I saw how easy its web interface and smartphone app made it to see recent events/live views, I was sold. Again, I went into this absolutely not wanting a PC running 24/7, but after seeing how important the camera system had become to folks in the house and how much easier it was to interact with it from smartphones/computers with Blue Iris, that was that. I'm sure (or at least I hope) both Synology and Dahua have significantly upgraded the UI of their apps since my last experience with them.
If Synology had supported IVS when I started, it would have reduced a lot of the friction that caused me to leave that platform. I still have my old NAS running, I'll have to down the latest Surveillance Station build and iOS app and see what's changed. Now that I'm on Blue Iris, I can't imagine using anything else, but it was a long road getting here.
NVRs generally don't have enough processing power to do their own motion detection; they rely on the cameras to detect motion and notify the NVR when that happens. This means with a NVR your motion detection abilities will vary by your cameras capabilities. For example, my older Dahua 5231s and newer 5442s both have IVS, but only the newer 5442s have the AI filter that can only trigger when motion is identified as a person and/or vehicle. Using a NVR, I don't have a way to supplement the older 5231s to make them better. Most VMS give you the option to additionally monitor the camera stream and run another lay of motion detection. My experience using an older Synology for this wasn't good -- one camera overwhelmed the processor, slowing down the Synology to where NAS-related things were affected. Also, Synology's built-in motion detection (again, this was a few years back) wasn't any better than than the basic motion detection built into cameras ... i.e. wasn't even at IVS level. Maybe that's improved. Blue Iris has some pretty robust motion detection features that can usually meet or beat Dahua IVS. This can be handy because while Dahua cameras often have multiple features like IVS, People Counting, Face Detection, Heat Maps, etc, the camera itself can usually only be configured to do one of them. So you often can't have it do IVS and Face Detection at the same time. With a VMS, you can have the VMS do IVS-like motion detection (if it's capable, I know BI can) and then have the camera configured for Face Detection. There are also at least two open projects floating around in threads here where you can install an AI engine on your BI PC and have BI alert images filtered through there.
If you want your camera system to interface with other systems in your house (like one of the many open-source home automation systems), doing that with a NVR is a lot harder. VMS like Synology/BI can take custom actions when a camera senses motion, like doing an HTTP GET/POST across your network to your home automation system with a parameter in the URL that lets it know which camera had motion. This makes it possible for HA systems to do an automation like "if the driveway camera senses motion after dark and the outside lights aren't already on, turn them on for give minutes, then turn them off". BI will even let you run any script or executable, which makes what you can do when motion happens pretty much limitless. I haven't seen a NVR that can send alerts across the network like this. There's the option of paying a bit more for a model that has IO ports on the back, then physically wire those ports in a manner that whatever system you're connecting to can read them. Even then, the NVR can usually only generically say "motion was detected" and can't be specific as to which camera detected motion, which limits a lot of the usefullness IMO. I have seen some folks setup a script on another box running 24/7 that polls the NVR or cameras for motion detection and then forwards that over to the HA system.
I started with a Synology for a few months back in 2016, moved to a Dahua NVR for a few months, then have been on Blue Iris for the last several years. When I started my camera system, I absolutely did not want an always-on PC involved in the project. Since I already owned the Synology and it came with two free camera licenses, made sense to start there. It did not support IVS back then and I could not tune basic motion detection to reduce false alerts worth a damn. I also didn't care for the smartphone app UI or speed, but hopefully that's changed since then. When I added my third camera I had to choose between paying for a Synology license or buying a Dahua NVR. I really really really wanted more reliable motion detection (IVS) so I went with the NVR. IVS significantly cut down the amount of false alerts. I disliked the Dahua smartphone app even more -- it was slower and more cumbersome to see if any recent motion had been detected. The NVR was a newer model back then and had some firmware teething issues (all since resolved), so as a temporary backup to the NVR while the issues were being worked I installed the Blue Iris demo on an old PC that was laying around. When I saw how easy its web interface and smartphone app made it to see recent events/live views, I was sold. Again, I went into this absolutely not wanting a PC running 24/7, but after seeing how important the camera system had become to folks in the house and how much easier it was to interact with it from smartphones/computers with Blue Iris, that was that. I'm sure (or at least I hope) both Synology and Dahua have significantly upgraded the UI of their apps since my last experience with them.
If Synology had supported IVS when I started, it would have reduced a lot of the friction that caused me to leave that platform. I still have my old NAS running, I'll have to down the latest Surveillance Station build and iOS app and see what's changed. Now that I'm on Blue Iris, I can't imagine using anything else, but it was a long road getting here.
aristobrat
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Forgot to add that Dahua NVRs do tend to support more of the less frequently used camera features where as VMS like Synology/BI probably won't. For example, many of the newer Dahua cameras with Face Detect have an option to pop-up a detected face on the NVR screen for a few seconds. Synology/BI don't do that. I think the Dahua NVRs also have options to build compilations of detected faces/vehicles, something that Synology/BI don't do.
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looney2ns
IPCT Contributor