Pandemic threat? Anyone else concerned?
- Thread starter erkme73
- Start date
I think he outplayed the left today by asking if the election should be delayed. Now the left will fight to the death to see that it happens on schedule. Not because it's right or wrong, but because they're bots that are programmed to oppose the bad orange man.
Search for Europe second wave, you'll see an uptick in cases and they are worried about a second wave as people go on their month long vacation.
Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
Humans think they can predict or even change the climate on this plant. That's funny. There is so much we don't understand. We are tracking data from the last couple hundred years from a 4 billion year old planet. Would you think the pandemic was over if there were no reported cases in a 4 hour period today? Science. Can't have it both ways.
Doesn't matter, we've only got 12 years left anyway.
Haven't read an apolitical analysis stating that the reorg caused harm to response. Tim Morrison's article is interesting read:
"...Defense Secretary Robert Gates, congressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity)...:
The previous administration failure to re-supply emergency PPE stock pile, even though funds were provided to do so, as noted in the USA Today fact check, didn't help the response.
No, the White House Didn’t ‘Dissolve’ Its Pandemic Response Office | RealClearPolitics
President Trump gets his share of criticism some warranted, much not. But recently the presidents critics have chosen curious ground to question his response to the coronavirus outbreak since...
Fact check: Did the Obama administration deplete the federal stockpile of N95 masks?
During the presidency of Barack Obama, the national stockpile was seriously taxed as the administration addressed multiple crises over eight years.
www.usatoday.com
mat200
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Please clarify how the Pandemic and Climate change are related, as I certainly see no immediate relationship.
Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
I was making a comparison. We have very limited data of Earth's climate. Maybe a century and a half's worth, as accurate instruments are a fairly recent discovery. Yet, many scientists seem to be ok with using this very thin slice of data to make assumptions on the status of our climate.
My point was that it would be similar for a scientist to take a thin slice of pandemic infection data (say a few hours), and use that data to assume the status of the pandemic.
It doesn't work. We've all seen the graphs, flattening the curve, etc.
We don't have an accurate graph of the earths climate from 1000 years ago. Or a million, or a billion, regardless of what they say core samples infer. They are not that accurate, and are cherry picked.
Sorry, got off topic on that one.
Frankenscript
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Actually there is quite a lot of data, from numerous sources, ranging from core samples to tree rings to sea creature shell characteristics and the data line up quite well. Some are more sensitive to short term fluctuation than others. They are not cherry picked and there is strong concensus in the data from disparate methods. The best representation of the data I've ever seen is in cartoon form here:
Earth Temperature Timeline
Scroll through it from top to bottom. The sudden and uniquely quick upswing is the temperature curve is unlike anything we see elsewhere in the record. If you don't like the cartoon here is a more recent article in Nature that compares five different methodologies:
Holocene global mean surface temperature, a multi-method reconstruction approach - Scientific Data
An extensive new multi-proxy database of paleo-temperature time series (Temperature 12k) enables a more robust analysis of global mean surface temperature (GMST) and associated uncertainties than was previously available. We applied five different statistical methods to reconstruct the GMST of...
www.nature.com
Frankenscript
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Haven't read an apolitical analysis stating that the reorg caused harm to response. Tim Morrison's article is interesting read:
"...Defense Secretary Robert Gates, congressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity)...:
The previous administration failure to re-supply emergency PPE stock pile, even though funds were provided to do so, as noted in the USA Today fact check, didn't help the response.
No, the White House Didn’t ‘Dissolve’ Its Pandemic Response Office | RealClearPolitics
President Trump gets his share of criticism some warranted, much not. But recently the presidents critics have chosen curious ground to question his response to the coronavirus outbreak since...www.realclearpolitics.com
Fact check: Did the Obama administration deplete the federal stockpile of N95 masks?
During the presidency of Barack Obama, the national stockpile was seriously taxed as the administration addressed multiple crises over eight years.www.usatoday.com
True, Obama administration should have prioritized masks more highly after having repeatedly needed to draw them down. Trump administration ALSO should have done so; he had three years in office before the crisis to do so. Both administrations made this mistake.
And, refer back to my post, I didn't say Trump disbanded/dissolved the pandemic response team, I said he reorganized it. He did. Objective accounts can be found in many places (such as at Snopes ). It was a cost cutting measure and significantly impacted our early response to COVID-19. Some have said that the reorganization of the team was not impactful, but if you examine post #9 IN THIS VERY THREAD, by thread starter @erkme73 , you will see that indeed notifications such as happened in the past were not occurring. His wife is a front line medical worker, here's what he said (please refer to post 9 for full context):
"She said that with MERS and SARS, the CDC was sending notices to physicians (directly and via hospitals) on a regular basis. She has received none from the CDC to date. "
Back in late January, based on erkme73's comments, I asked around some of my medical contacts as to why notices weren't going out like in the past, and they said it was because the office that did that was re-orged by Trump two years ago.
Can we Trust Cuomo on the recent statistics for New York State? Keeps touting that we're at a record low.
Frankenscript
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NYS is probably actually at that record low now. However, Georgia crowed about record lows too, and look where they are a month or so later...
OF course, if you go to NYS right now you have to quarantine for two weeks, right?
Yes @Frankenscript that is correct. However, again, how realistic is it to enforce this "quarantine"?
I've seen plates from just about all of the current hotspots (i.e. California, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, etc.) I've come across them all while driving
I've seen plates from just about all of the current hotspots (i.e. California, Arizona, Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Florida, South Carolina, North Carolina, etc.) I've come across them all while driving
Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
I have heard that Chicago plans on ticketing for infractions. But you are right. How do they know?
mat200
IPCT Contributor
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Hi @Jessie.slimer
1) Actually this is factually incorrect:
I was making a comparison. We have very limited data of Earth's climate. Maybe a century and a half's worth, ...
If you want to not believe, that's up to you - but it is a complete falsehood that we have only a century and a half's worth of climate data.
Lots of resources online if you really care to learn more about science and the scientific methods.
2) My point was that it would be similar for a scientist to take a thin slice of pandemic infection data (say a few hours), and use that data to assume the status of the pandemic.
I don't recall any scientists being ignorant of data sampling and potential issues with statistics. Again this is why science is encouraged to share their methods and data so that it can be reviewed. That's the scientific process. To test and fact check.
Jessie.slimer
BIT Beta Team
I agree there when it comes to the pandemic. Thats why I made mention of all the graphs of flattening the curve. The science definitely has the data in this case.
But I will disagree on climate data. Show me all the data you want, but I'm not buying. All the samples are interpreted by humans. There is no direct measurements of temp, pressure, etc.
They didn't even know what direction it was heading just a couple decades ago. Wasn't it global warming? Then global cooling? Then....wait for it.... climate change.
I've heard it a few times on this exact thread. Scientists change their views as data becomes available. I get it. But I haven't seen enough data to make a decision. Maybe its true, but I won't be around long enough to see the data from this cycle.