Request suggestions for camera's for surveillance/monitoring

[S0619212]

I would like to get some recommendations on brand name and specifications that I need to be looking for to meet my requirements. I am thinking i might need 4 camera's, 1 covering the front of the garage, 1 covering the alley, 1 covering the backyard and may be one on the side of the alley.

1. Should be POE, should have good night vision, basically be able to identify a person during low light conditions.
2. Good resolution , may be 4K?
3. Should cover 90 degrees angle.

I will also take some pics and post it here, looks like I should be able to get a set ( switch + cameras ) for around ~ $700? I am perfectly fine with used cameras, I am not sure which one's should I get bullet vs dome? I have a decent idea how to run the cable and install, I will refer to the wiki for installation instructions.

 

[mat200]

I would like to get some recommendations on brand name and specifications that I need to be looking for to meet my requirements. I am thinking i might need 4 camera's, 1 covering the front of the garage, 1 covering the alley, 1 covering the backyard and may be one on the side of the alley.

1. Should be POE, should have good night vision, basically be able to identify a person during low light conditions.
2. Good resolution , may be 4K?
3. Should cover 90 degrees angle.

I will also take some pics and post it here, looks like I should be able to get a set ( switch + cameras ) for around ~ $700? I am perfectly fine with used cameras, I am not sure which one's should I get bullet vs dome? I have a decent idea how to run the cable and install, I will refer to the wiki for installation instructions.

Welcome @S0619212

You will probably need more than 4...

Probably a good idea to buy one good varifocal and play with it a bit to get a better understanding of what it can do... while considering this, do check out

Would your setup be able to ID these suspects

This is a great example of a potential attack which your system should be able to assist in helping to ID the suspects. Test this scenario 1) Can you ID someone running on the sidewalk in front of your driveway? 2) Can you ID a car in front of your house? 3) Can you ID suspects wearing a hoodie...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[samplenhold]

1. Should be POE, should have good night vision, basically be able to identify a person during low light conditions.
2. Good resolution , may be 4K?
3. Should cover 90 degrees angle.

These requirements are in opposition to each other. Especially #1 and2.

Read the Cliff Notes.

Do not chase MP. Realize that the way to get good low light performance is to get as big a sensor as possible. Currently in the prosumer grade of cams, the Dahua 5442 series is the go to cam. It is 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor. It gives great low light color performance. The 4K cams are generally on 1/2.8" sensors, with some on 1/1.8" sensors. But even on the 1/1.8" sensors, shoving 8MP on there gives each pixel less light, half the light of the 4MP cams on the same sensor. They look nice in daytime wide angle shots and well lit nighttime shots for marketing purposes, but in real life they are not good in low light and any movement of the subject will cause blur.

The wider the angle, the closer a perp has to be to the cam to get a useful face shot. Wide angle cams are fine for overview shots, but you need to have cams focused on the action areas to get good enough face shots to ID and convict.

Dome cams are not recommended for outdoors as they get quite dirty and rain beads up on the dome and makes it useless when wet. Also the IR can reflect off the dome and cause poor video. The plastic domes are susceptible to UV fogging over time. Stick with turrets or bullets for outdoor cams.

 

[SouthernYankee]

As stated above. good night vision and 4K is a conflict. The best night vision consumer cameras have a CMOS sensor 1/1.8. Video quality is the sensor size not the Megapixels.

Read study plan before spending your money.
================================================

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) your first camera should be a good variable focus camera to check camera placement and the correct lens.
3) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them ?

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/dahua-4mp-starlight-lineup.42000/#post-388253

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/#post-373517

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[S0619212]

Thank you everyone for taking time in responding. I have taken few pics and marked down locations of the cameras where i think they should be, I would appreciate if you all can provide some feed back.

TIA.

 

[bradner]

Thank you everyone for taking time in responding. I have taken few pics and marked down locations of the cameras where i think they should be, I would appreciate if you all can provide some feed back.

TIA.

Definately these cams IPC-T5442TM-AS with their 1/1.8" sensors and 4MP - they are ~$160ea and Andy on this site carries them. I've bought at least half a dozen or so already from him.

Review here

• 3.6mm has a 89 degree FOV
• 2.8mm is 113 degree FOV
• 6.0mm is 55 degree FOV

The wider the view (lower mm lens) the less details you'll get because the image will be wide angled. I wish I started with those cams instead of replacing all my original cams after less than a year because of disappointing low light performance.

Oh, don't get domes for outside as the domes can be a PITA to clean from water drops, bug excrement... and a risk of IR reflection inside the dome.

 

[S0619212]

Thanks. In the front I might be able to have camera on the beam of garage door that is about 7 - 8 feet. But the ones in the back and alley it will be around 12 - 15 feet right under the roof, i guess i can have it pull down but then there will be bit of wire visible.

Are those good locations?

 

[bradner]

7-8 feet is a great height because you get a better angle to capture faces etc. The higher up you go you see the top of their hat/hoodie....Yes there's a change of camera damage/theft if it's within reach but that's not overly likely. I'd try the spots with the least amount of hassle first and then make adjustments from there if needed. Maybe you'll be happy with the cams up a bit higher and not having the hassle of dealing with exposed wire or concealing it or having an angry spouse for "messing up the side of the house" - NOT that I would know about that LOL

 

[samplenhold]

It is important to understand what views you will get from a specific location. You really should make a plan that states what you wish to accomplish by putting a cam in a specific location. I know it is easy to just say "put a cam at each corner in the soffit and one by the garage", but without stating exactly what you expect from a cam in that location, if you have an incident and don't get a good useable shot, you will be pissed. Or like the guy down the street that installed several Ring cams and got blurry video of the person pilfering through his truck. His wife said, basically "You spent a grand on those cams and you can't even tell if it is a guy or girl?"

Case in point: What is it that you want to be able to see from location C4? Just see if someone is there? Be able to ID a face of a perp at night? How far away would they be? Do you have any lighting there at night?

Most folks here will say two cams at the garage pointed in a crossing pattern. That is how my garage is set up. Cams high up will only get you good overview looks and probably not good face shots unless the perps are away from the cams but then you need zoom to see them.


My driveway has two cams, one on each side of the garage door: The view is This gives me two possible angles on a perp in my driveway. Below is a still from a BI recording that was used to ID and arrest a perp door checker this year.


Start out small. I suggest one varifocal cam, like the 5442 turret varifocal (HDW5442T-ZE aka T5442T-ZE). Place it on a test rig as described in the Cliff Notes and test your plan. Do not run wires or mount cam until you are happy with the proposed location. Here is my test rig: Make sure you walk it at night.

If you do it this way, you will find as you gain experience and knowledge, your plan will change, evolve. Mine has changed several times over the two years I have been active.

It is OK to have overview cams. But one must realize that they will not give you face shots that will ID a perp and get a conviction. I believe in fit-for-purpose selection of cams. Each on my 18 cams was picked based on it's functionality with respect to the job it needs to do. Those 18 cams are spread across 10 models. Some are varifocal, and some are fixed lens cams. The FOV was chosen by testing the location with a varifocal and getting the best FOV and then selecting the lens size from that test.

 

[bradner]

If I would have followed @samplenhold 's advice I would have saved a bunch of money on cam upgrades. I'm more impulsive and just buy a cam and then find the "right spot" for it afterwards. LOL I've probably had 3 or 4 different cams in each spot I currently have one now, as I shuffle them all around trying out different focal lengths, features, etc.... I'm very fast and re and re'ing a cam though now! I'm up to 22 or so cams around my place outside right now....

 

[Mike A.]

...just buy a cam and then find the "right spot" for it afterwards...

Hello brother

; )

 

[S0619212]

7-8 feet is a great height because you get a better angle to capture faces etc. The higher up you go you see the top of their hat/hoodie....Yes there's a change of camera damage/theft if it's within reach but that's not overly likely. I'd try the spots with the least amount of hassle first and then make adjustments from there if needed. Maybe you'll be happy with the cams up a bit higher and not having the hassle of dealing with exposed wire or concealing it or having an angry spouse for "messing up the side of the house" - NOT that I would know about that LOL

It is important to understand what views you will get from a specific location. You really should make a plan that states what you wish to accomplish by putting a cam in a specific location. I know it is easy to just say "put a cam at each corner in the soffit and one by the garage", but without stating exactly what you expect from a cam in that location, if you have an incident and don't get a good useable shot, you will be pissed. Or like the guy down the street that installed several Ring cams and got blurry video of the person pilfering through his truck. His wife said, basically "You spent a grand on those cams and you can't even tell if it is a guy or girl?"

Case in point: What is it that you want to be able to see from location C4? Just see if someone is there? Be able to ID a face of a perp at night? How far away would they be? Do you have any lighting there at night?

Most folks here will say two cams at the garage pointed in a crossing pattern. That is how my garage is set up. Cams high up will only get you good overview looks and probably not good face shots unless the perps are away from the cams but then you need zoom to see them.
View attachment 71418

My driveway has two cams, one on each side of the garage door: View attachment 71424 View attachment 71423 The view is View attachment 71425 This gives me two possible angles on a perp in my driveway. Below is a still from a BI recording that was used to ID and arrest a perp door checker this year.
View attachment 71426

Start out small. I suggest one varifocal cam, like the 5442 turret varifocal (HDW5442T-ZE aka T5442T-ZE). Place it on a test rig as described in the Cliff Notes and test your plan. Do not run wires or mount cam until you are happy with the proposed location. Here is my test rig: View attachment 71429 Make sure you walk it at night.

If you do it this way, you will find as you gain experience and knowledge, your plan will change, evolve. Mine has changed several times over the two years I have been active.

It is OK to have overview cams. But one must realize that they will not give you face shots that will ID a perp and get a conviction. I believe in fit-for-purpose selection of cams. Each on my 18 cams was picked based on it's functionality with respect to the job it needs to do. Those 18 cams are spread across 10 models. Some are varifocal, and some are fixed lens cams. The FOV was chosen by testing the location with a varifocal and getting the best FOV and then selecting the lens size from that test.

Thanks.

All this makes sense, this is first time I am doing it , but below is what I think how it should look like. Sounds like 7 - 8 feet is recommended location for cameras.

	Location	Coverage	Night Vision	Audio	Area Coverage	Type of Camera	Model/Brand	Notes
C1 - Garage	7 feet located on right garage	90 degrees	Should be able to detect image low light conditions at night	Prefer 2-way audio	40 - 50 feet - All 90 degrees	Turret?		ID anyone with in 90 degrees radius and 40 - 50 feet range, day and night
C2- Back yard	8 feet located left side by spout	90 degrees	Should be able to detect image low light conditions at night	Prefer 2-way audio	60 - 70 feet - All 90 degrees	Turret?		ID anyone with in 90 degrees radius and 60 - 70 feet range, day and night
C3- Right side alley	8 feet on the wall pointing towards back yard	45 degrees	Should be able to detect image low light conditions at night	N/A	60 - 70 feet - 45 degrees	Bullet?		Be able to ID entering from right side of the garage within 45 degrees, try not to stay away from neighbors side view
C4 - Left side alley	8 feet on the wall pointing towards front	45 degrees	Should be able to detect image low light conditions at night	N/A	61 - 70 feet - 45 degrees	Bullet?		Be able to ID entering from right side of the garage within 45 degrees, try not to stay away from neighbors backyard view

 

[bradner]

Coverage is only half of the battle, you need the lens focal length. That's super important because a 2mm lens is approaching fisheye an images are too distant appearing to make out any real descriptors. I have a few 6mm focal length cams and they do a decent job in the house to about 50 feet out or so I'd guess for getting details. So you need to add the working distance you want the cam to do, that helps immensely. I've lost count how many times I've paced out the distance I want the cam to perform to around my place...

For example, here's a 6mm IPC-T5442TM-AS (55 degree view) cam thats 51 feet from the house front and about 10 feet high. The width of view here is about 40 feet I'm guessing.

I like the 6mm but you'd need a couple of them on the front to get full width coverage as @samplenhold said earlier.

 

[samplenhold]

but below is what I think how it should look like.

Great start. Deciding between bullet and turret is more or less personal choice. I kind of prefer turrets if out in the open as they seem less 'I am looking at you' than bullets. They tend not to stick out as much. It is real obvious that a bullet is a cam, but most folks that are not cam savvy don't notice a turret let alone know what it is. I have had neighbors ask where is the cam that got the pic of that door checker you posted on Nextdoor? When I point to it they say that's a cam? Where as everyone knows a bullet is a cam.

I do not know anyone that has bothered with 2-way audio. Finding cams with speakers is fairly hard. Especially ones with good low light color performance.

Realize that there is a trade off on being able to get a good face shot of someone 40-70 feet away and being able to see a good distance to the side. The example of the door checker I posted before is about 20-25 feet from the cam. The cam was a varifocal at about 6.5mm equivalent.

 

[S0619212]

WOW. This is great info, now this is all slowly going over top of my head..lol

For front and back I think I will go with this one IPC-T5442T-ZE .

For the sides, do turret's have wider angle than bullet camera's? I want to make sure my camera's are not recording stuff from my neighbors backyard. Might be OK but just want to make sure I am not not intruding someone's privacy.

 

[samplenhold]

do turret's have wider angle than bullet camera's

Same FOV for the same lens.

I want to make sure my camera's are not recording stuff from my neighbors backyard

Again, the only way to answer that question is to use a test rig. Try it out with the varifocal first and determine what lens is needed if you want a fixed lens cam.

 

[mat200]

Thank you everyone for taking time in responding. I have taken few pics and marked down locations of the cameras where i think they should be, I would appreciate if you all can provide some feed back.

TIA.

HI @S0619212

Very nice house.

I can see installing 6 cameras just for the front:

2x on garage area - one on each side of the garage doors by the lights
2x by the front door, watch for package drop and one face level for anyone at the front door.
1x covering each side of the house

Trust us on this, get one varifocal 4MP Dahua OEM camera and small IP PoE switch and start to play and test your locations you are looking at.

The most important thing is getting good placements for the cameras, and that requires a bit of testing - especially with those lights on the wall. You may need to adjust the positions you are considering a little.

 

[S0619212]

All point noted.

I plan to get one NVR5208-8P-4KS2E for the NVR and 1 IPC-T5442T-ZE and will test it out.

Andy mentioned these are Dahua OEM's? Does anyone sell actual Dahua brand one's? Do you know if the NVR comes with any software or BI is the way to go for mobile and desktop?

 

[samplenhold]

Andy mentioned these are Dahua OEM's? Does anyone sell actual Dahua brand one's? Do you know if the NVR comes with any software or BI is the way to go for mobile and desktop?

The cams are totally Dahua, just do not have the logo. Although some of the cams I get from Andy do actually have the Dahua logo.

The NVR has firmware that is the 'software' to control, record, store, etc the video from the cams. While some folks use an NVR AND a BI pc, they do that for a specific reason. Most everyone else uses one or the other.

You really need to read the Cliff Notes as this is all explained in there.

 

[SouthernYankee]

there is no difference between the OEM and Dahua version of the camera. Andy provides links to the firmware upgrades. The Chinese manufactures do not provide end user direct support for any of there products. If you want support, you will have to purchase in Country (USA) and get support from the company you purchased from. Andy provides great support if the camera is broken.