System Advice needed for this newb

[WakeRider]

So I stumbled across this website when I first began breaking ground on my house 2+ years ago and finally getting to the point where I am wrapping everything up and need to start ordering my cameras! Super exciting to finally see the finish line in sight. But now that I actually need to pull the trigger on some cameras I figured I would reach out to ask those who are for more experienced then myself.

This is a new construction house down by a lake in Massachusetts. Because of the paranoid person I am + the fact there are some rifts with a neighbors family that I really do not trust (long story) so here we are. There will be 7 cameras around the house and 2 cameras down by the water (approx 200' from the house).

The 2 cameras down by the water will be mounted on a Pergola and connected to a switch that will be mounted under the bar to provide power to the 2 cameras down there. These cameras are mostly to keep an eye on the boat gear during the season while it is out at the end of the dock (approx 150' from the camera) while another is to keep an eye on all the stuff in the sitting area.

The 7 cameras on the house will be all mounted under the soffit (with the exception of 1) looking at various directions of the yard. The single non soffit mounted camera is wall mounted at 7 feet to be able to identify anyone at the front door. The goal is to have one camera be a PTZ that would over look the area of the yard I am most concerned about (as there is a right of way / easement over there which means we get all kinds of people claiming to be able to use it). The other 6 will be covering the other angles of the house with 2 of the 6 being able to cover the back for me to keep an eye on my dogs. My plan is to upload a plot plan that shows house and road location but all I currently have is the septic version so need to take some time to clean that up for people to be able to actually see it and understand my plan.

At this point I am looking for recommendations on camera's. Based on searching peoples reviews and the rep that is on the site I am looking to steer towards the Dahua camera's however will take other recommendations. I have read the wiki multiple times but would appreciate any ones help on specific cameras. Most will be overview camera's with the one on the front door being the one to be able to identify anyone come to the door.

As for the backbone of the network my plan is to run a blue iris server to run all the cameras. Switch will be a 48 port POE Araknis switch an Araknis 300 series router. Also looking for any recommendations of ways to be able to pair this system with the Control4 system that is also going into the house. All camera's have a dedicate cat 6 home run to the network rack and patch panel.

Thanks a bunch in advance and looking forward to getting into this project!!!

-WR

 

[samplenhold]

Welcome to your first post!

Sounds like you have a plan. I caution you on buying everything at once. As you work with cams you will gain experience and could possibly realize that your plan needs revision. It is recommended to start with one varifocal cam and build a test rig as in the Cliff Notes to help in the design and picking of cams for each position.

A few comments. A front door cam at 7' is too high. I prefer 5'. At 7' close in you will only get the top of someone's head.

For running the connection to the dock, it would be prudent to use fiber to avoid lightning issues.

A good cam for the 150' view to the boat might be the Dahua HFW5241E-Z12E varifocal cam. A lot of us use this cam for LPR, but it has great reach and 150' should give you a good shot. Else a good POE of the sort that @Wildcat_1 has reviewed here (do a search on his ID and REVIEW in the title. Also the Dahua B5442E-Z4E might have enough reach and is a great low light color cam. Use the IPVM camera calculator to help decide.

https://calculator.ipvm.com/

The go to cam now is the Dahua 5442 series. Lots of reviews and discussions here about that series.

 

[mat200]

So I stumbled across this website when I first began breaking ground on my house 2+ years ago and finally getting to the point where I am wrapping everything up and need to start ordering my cameras! Super exciting to finally see the finish line in sight. But now that I actually need to pull the trigger on some cameras I figured I would reach out to ask those who are for more experienced then myself.

This is a new construction house down by a lake in Massachusetts. Because of the paranoid person I am + the fact there are some rifts with a neighbors family that I really do not trust (long story) so here we are. There will be 7 cameras around the house and 2 cameras down by the water (approx 200' from the house).
..

Good to have you here @WakeRider

How far along are you with the construction?

I concur with samplenhold - and would actually even recommend having 2 cameras covering the front door - one at face level ... hopefully you still have a chance to easily run another line there.
( often you need 2 cameras at the front door area as it is hard to get good face level images and cover the package drop / mat area with one lens,... note there are 2 lens IP cameras available if you have to go that route )

Note: I highly recommend running N+1+ cat6 lines to each location you plan to put an IP device...

 

[SouthernYankee]

=================
You are off to a good start.
Read study plan before spending money
@samplenhold and @mat200 are right on the money with there comments.
Go slow, one camera to start , a Dahua 5442 variable focus camera.
Test all location at night with motion.

======================

My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) your first camera should be a good variable focus camera to check camera placement and the correct lens.
3) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them ?

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442-ZE ..... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/dahua-4mp-starlight-lineup.42000/#post-388253

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post
Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[WakeRider]

Good to have you here @WakeRider

How far along are you with the construction?

I concur with samplenhold - and would actually even recommend having 2 cameras covering the front door - one at face level ... hopefully you still have a chance to easily run another line there.
( often you need 2 cameras at the front door area as it is hard to get good face level images and cover the package drop / mat area with one lens,... note there are 2 lens IP cameras available if you have to go that route )

Note: I highly recommend running N+1+ cat6 lines to each location you plan to put an IP device...

So sadly we are beyond the point of being able to run more drops (spray foam has already been installed), not to mention I am already at 42 drops for the rest of the house (Smart home system and everything else. Wife is already ready to kill me on that so it is what it is at this point hahahaha).

As for the front door I will have 3 cameras covering the driveway area from multiple angles plus the camera by the door. Measured the penetration for the camera to go by the door and we are at approx 6' so that is going to have to do. Not to mention the area I am in does not have "smart criminals" (lot of people that couldn't spell the word criminal) so not worried about a criminal mastermind thwarting the camera's I have in place.

As for the camera recommendations I was looking at this one on the website: 8MP Starlight Lite Varifocal IP Camera | IP Cam Talk Store. If reading correctly does that have a larger sensor than the 4552 that everyone was recommending?? I am not saying I need to go 4k on all my cameras (as I have read MP aren't everything!) but would like to get the higher def stuff for the front of the house (as those I am concerned with would more than likely try something during the day when I am not home vs when I am sleeping). I will buy atleast one camera and pop it up in the location that the others will be mounted for testing. Was hoping to not keep climbing up and down ladders to swap them out but oh well guess I will live hahaha.

Thanks for the welcome and keep the suggestions / reading material coming! Always looking to be able to learn more about different stuff. Hoping to get internet hook up next week so I can have my switches and routers configured for the smart home and then I can start testing / hooking up all my cat6 drops. Need to finish building the blue iris computer (which I should probably get on). For the PTZ cameras do most require a 24V powersource or do some run just off the POE? For my first PTZ camera I am putting in I still have the ability to drop a 24V DC run for it before I close up the wall in about 2 weeks.

 

[samplenhold]

If reading correctly does that have a larger sensor than the 4552

Nope. It has a 1/2.7" sensor and the 5442 series has a 1/1.8" sensor. (1/2.7" = 0.370" and 1/1.8" = 0.555")

The big PTZ cams are usually POE+ and do not need a separate power supply. Just make sure you have the appropriate POE switches and watch the power budget of each port as well as the total power budget.

Not to mention the area I am in does not have "smart criminals"

You don't need "smart criminals" to defeat cams. Most everyone of them will be wearing a ball cap. Cams mounted high will give you no face image.

8MP cams are all the rage these days but have short comings. They eat up disk space, hog processing cycles, and are generally poor at night in color. Even if you find one on a larger CMOS, like 1/1.8", they still have jammed twice the pixels as the 5442 on the same sensor so each pixel will get half the light, all things being equal. Even in the daytime, while the still images will be real nice, motion can be an issue. If you really want a high MP cam, then get a good one, like the one reviewed in this thread:

Ordered Sony SNC-VB770 Image Sensor Size 35MM :)

Hi Guys, I wanted to share with you I will be soon getting a SNC-VB770 Possibly in a week or two. Just placed the order. Will Definitely be a while until I permanently Mount it however I will be doing some test like in low light and share some video once I get it:) Want to know your thoughts...

ipcamtalk.com

You do not need to climb up and down ladders to do the tests. Mount cams on a test rig as in the Cliff Notes. Here is mine in action.

 

[WakeRider]

Nope. It has a 1/2.7" sensor and the 5442 series has a 1/1.8" sensor. (1/2.7" = 0.370" and 1/1.8" = 0.555")

Okay now that you showed the math to the engineer I understand

The big PTZ cams are usually POE+ and do not need a separate power supply. Just make sure you have the appropriate POE switches and watch the power budget of each port as well as the total power budget.

Awesome. I have a max power per port of 30 W with a overall power budget of 375W Switch. If I really start eating up my power on this switch I can sell this switch and split down to two smaller switches on the next model up to get the same power in a 24 port. Hopefully I wont need to (currently only look at 4 WAPS and the cameras for the POE budget so I should be fine). I will have to dive in on the PTZ reviews next week (as it is slow at work so have plenty of time for some reading!).
[/QUOTE]

You don't need "smart criminals" to defeat cams. Most everyone of them will be wearing a ball cap. Cams mounted high will give you no face image.

Honestly not sure if they would even put the cap on!!! Worse case scenario I can do a doorbell camera in conjunction with the porch camera if it gets really bad as I ran the Cat 6 for the doorbell as well in case we decided to upgrade to do the Control4 Door station (but they wanted $1,500 for that alone!)

8MP cams are all the rage these days but have short comings. They eat up disk space, hog processing cycles, and are generally poor at night in color. Even if you find one on a larger CMOS, like 1/1.8", they still have jammed twice the pixels as the 5442 on the same sensor so each pixel will get half the light, all things being equal. Even in the daytime, while the still images will be real nice, motion can be an issue. If you really want a high MP cam, then get a good one, like the one reviewed in this thread:

Ordered Sony SNC-VB770 Image Sensor Size 35MM :)

Hi Guys, I wanted to share with you I will be soon getting a SNC-VB770 Possibly in a week or two. Just placed the order. Will Definitely be a while until I permanently Mount it however I will be doing some test like in low light and share some video once I get it:) Want to know your thoughts...

ipcamtalk.com

That is a good point about the 8MP cameras. I may just through one on the front of the house to be able to have nice clear image during the day (maybe even do the one that is on the porch as the 8MP) and then keep the others as the 4MP cameras for the low light. I will definitely start with a 5442 as I did like the reviews on the camera (may even just do two of those for the front corners of the house I had in mind). I would like to find one in the deterrent series (or whatever it is called) so the LED's could be activated by motion as being right on the water results in plenty of bugs flying around at night, so leaving them on at all times would be bad.

 

[Old Timer]

Wow, congratulations, you have really done your homework!
I agree with one variable zoom camera on a jig of some sort to test what lens you need to capture
the area you need covered. The setup above will work well.
I used a 2x6 attached to my extension ladder for the high cameras (PTZ) used for an over view.
The cameras down by the pond, I would run 120v power for your lights, etc. Then use it to power a POE
switch with SFP port and use fiber cable to come back to the house. Great signal, and no lightning problems.
You can buy fiber cheap from amazon and epay. Search on this site for other fiber installs.
Don't forget a UPS for power backup.

 

[WakeRider]

Wow, congratulations, you have really done your homework!
I agree with one variable zoom camera on a jig of some sort to test what lens you need to capture
the area you need covered. The setup above will work well.
I used a 2x6 attached to my extension ladder for the high cameras (PTZ) used for an over view.
The cameras down by the pond, I would run 120v power for your lights, etc. Then use it to power a POE
switch with SFP port and use fiber cable to come back to the house. Great signal, and no lightning problems.
You can buy fiber cheap from amazon and epay. Search on this site for other fiber installs.
Don't forget a UPS for power backup.

Okay can anyone explain the lightning thing to me further, as I am not sure I totally follow? Reason I ask as I have 4 dedicated drops to the water side area. The 4 drops are buried in underground conduit and come up into the bar, into a patch panel and then would allow connections to be made to the units that need the drops and 1 for the switch that I will be putting in. I could pull the 4 ethernet drops and run a fiber with a 16port switch instead however I would rather not do that right away if I do not have to.

I have 3 separate circuits running down for 120v and 220v power near the pergola. I will snap some photos over the weekend of the different views that I am dealing with.

 

[Old Timer]

Any time you have an external location a fair ways from your house, you run the risk of lightning hitting
anything close to the external location, and ending up with a surge coming back on the ethernet cables.
With the small signals the cameras use, it does not take a lot to take out a port on your switch or even the whole switch.

Since you already have the cables ran, you could use an ethernet surge protector where it comes into the house.
Another way would be to use a small switch just for those 2 cameras, and it will be your "fusible link".
If you get a surge, you may lose the small switch, and the rest of the system lives. A small switch is cheaper then the surge protector.

In OK we have a lot of storms, and I have lost a couple switches to lightning even with surge protectors.
I ended up going to wireless bridges to most of my out buildings.

 

[Scale]

Hello,
I'm sorry in advance because I'm not sure that it is correct thread for my question.

I bought HFW2831T-ZAS-S2 camera and I installed it using POE connection.
Unfortunately the I camera doesn't have a microphone so I want to buy external microphone like this
DS-3F2030 audio CCTV pickup for camera security microphone RCA audio output black and white high sensitivity (

https://aliexpress.ru/item/32900744...2.1496576237.1600025516-1545264009.1577132352

)

The microphone needs 12V power supply, but I use POE connection so I don't have it.
Could you tell me how I can connect external microphone to my cameras that uses only POE ?

 

[SouthernYankee]

@Scale
If you have a new question , start a new thread, it is a lot easier that way, so the answers to multiple question do not get mixed up.
Sorry I can not help you on the microphone, power

 

[Old Timer]

You can get an adapter to convert POE power to 12v power, but I don't know if you would have enough
to do both on the same ethernet cable. You might have to run another one or get creative with the wiring.

 

[WakeRider]

Any time you have an external location a fair ways from your house, you run the risk of lightning hitting
anything close to the external location, and ending up with a surge coming back on the ethernet cables.
With the small signals the cameras use, it does not take a lot to take out a port on your switch or even the whole switch.

Since you already have the cables ran, you could use an ethernet surge protector where it comes into the house.
Another way would be to use a small switch just for those 2 cameras, and it will be your "fusible link".
If you get a surge, you may lose the small switch, and the rest of the system lives. A small switch is cheaper then the surge protector.

In OK we have a lot of storms, and I have lost a couple switches to lightning even with surge protectors.
I ended up going to wireless bridges to most of my out buildings.

Okay that makes sense. We do not get a huge amount of big lightning storms in my area but they do happen occasionally. Will look into the ethernet surge protector as there will be another switch for the rest of the components down there, however during the winter I will be bringing it in as it cannot stand up to the cold that is out there.

Once I get everything live on the network side going to get one of those cameras people recommended earlier and start figuring out what I need.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[CCTVCam]

I personally would put all the cameras much lower. The over view cameras are ok in theory at soffit height, but what if someone breaks in or vandalises your property via a route other than your front door eg back / side window / wall?

You will capture nothing of any use beyond the baseball cap as already suggested if they never go to your front door. It might be worth getting a pro in to run some cables down to 7ft around the house to give a better view. I'm sure there's a way of doing it even if it means removing a boards to allow something to bore / be pushed up through the insulation assuming it to be a liquid foam that sets. If the foam is board foam, there's almost cetainly going to be enough of a gap to squeeze a cable up. Loose foam, easy peasy. Another alternative would be some kind of corner board on all 4 corners of the house to allow cables ot be run down the outside but hidden. I'd personally recommend facing cameras along the side of the property rather than straight outwards with each one covering each side / each other to provide a record of any damage / entry. Facing cameras outwards gives a great view of people approaching the property but once below the field of view, anything they do to your property goes unrecorded. It makes snese to cross face cameras so each one protects the other, however, this woluld exceed your 7 camera budget as it would take 8 just to cover all 4 sides without anything outward facing.

At 7 ft for the over views, close up you'll still not get the ideal face shot, but from slightly further away, you stand a good chance of capturing something of use. From the soffits you'll never get more than he over view.

On the easement, check your deeds, and if claimed via usage, try finding more out and whether it's provable. Worth talking it over with an attorney. Also make sure you have legal expenses cover on your home policy that will cover any claims of this type made becasue depending on what your attorney advises, you might be able to simply fence it off. A wooden fence is good. If you want to keep the open feel, you could always go for a farmers style fence barbed wire fence. If people climb over, it might be worth getting some livestock eg a goat to keep the lawn short because then you'll need an electric fence . Just make sure the warning signs etc comply with local laws. Personally I recommend VOSS Farming units (VOSS). I have one of these to keep four legged thieves off my pond fish. I've had 3 fences before but nothing hits like the 3Joule unit I have. Have touched them all, the others mild, this one never again!!!!! I won't even hang the washing out without turning it off!

 

[WakeRider]

So camera's on the soffit was the compromise with the wife as she did not want camera's lower. It is being coupling with an alarm system so I am pretty happy with what the layout will be. Not to mention the camera's will have full coverage of the road coming in and out. Overview is the main goal right now and if it proves I need to install other camera's for more close watch then I will cross that bridge when I get there as I do still have 10 ports available on the patch panel currently.

When the budget allows I do plan on upgrading a couple more on the front side of the house to PTZ to be able to cover all angles to the house and get them tracked from a distance.

As for the right of way it is quite messy and have already consulted several lawyers. It is a messy situation that would cost me thousands to fight in court. I am planning a fence in the spring and hope that because they all are not in the best of physical fitness they all disappear in a couple of years.

Just waiting for FIOS to get approved and be able to start hooking up and testing cameras. I have the patch panel installed and switch and router are getting installed hopefully tonight with a couple of test cables being done. Gotta send Andy a message to be able to get the first two camera's on order and then spec out what I want to do for the rest. Thinking about doing Varifocal on the ones on the front of the house again so I can adjust as time goes on. For the ones on the back of the house to watch the dogs and other area's I will have to play with the camera's a bit before pulling the trigger.

Gotta start reviewing the PTZ camera's to be able to figure out what route I want to go on that right now.

 

[CCTVCam]

You don't need ptz's to cover the most of the house. Apart from the fact you can probably buy 2 ordinary varifocal zoom turret cameras for every ptz you buy, and that's assuming it's a cheap ptz. You can multiply the turrets you can buy by several times further for each expensive one you buy. Ptz's also have drawbacks, namely they are notorious for looking the wrong way / getting distracted by moving trees / bushes etc instead of what they should be looking at. You could find it's recording a moving bush whilst a guy in a black and white suit, with an eye mask and swag bag walks up to your door unnoticed. Read a few of the foums posts. Some members are using a ptz, but usually it's a single long range cam supplemented by all their other cameras being varifocal zooms or fixed focal length turrets. PTZ's excel at longe range recognition. however, you have to weight that against the drawbacks.

Your wife will also probably like turrets better. They're a fraction of the size of a ptz:





I think the allen key in the 2nd one and hand in the 1st give some perspective.

(Pictures stolen from Looney's excellent reviews (sorry Looney)).

Just my 2 cents & full disclosure I don't have a system up atm.

 

[WakeRider]

Well right now I was going to do a PTZ to watch the right of way I have (which furthest point from there is 200') and then another to watch the boat gear that would be outside. The rest of the front of the house was going to be Varifocal zoom lenses. I understand the PTZ does have draw backs but will probably put one on the shop when I get that built next year and then have full coverage of that entire area with a few varifocal backups.