Full ALPR Database System for Blue Iris!

[algertc]

I ordered one of the Motorola cameras that @TheWaterbug mentioned previously. Hoping it might contain some free billion dollar magic for 30 dollars...

What I have noticed with the lyorta's is that they are very hesitant to switch IR/daylight modes. You really need to set a manual schedule in Blue Iris. I missed a whole lot of plates between 5-8am because of this and never really addressed it until recently.

If Motorolas are consistently available, that's gotta be a killer solution, but otherwise (or for any lyorta/dahua users [most]), maybe an addition or revision to the cliff notes could be helpful. I know there are threads talking about settings, but I myself have combed through them without much clarity in the past. A more detailed dummy's guide to ALPR could be nice for a lot of folks.


Edit:
Also, if there is, in fact, some sort of special image processing embedded in the Motorola devices, coupling that with the power of crowdsourced global residential image collection could create a near professional-grade LPR solution... The fact that these devices are available secondhand and that we are able to collect data that they otherwise couldn't really is an exciting prospect.

I've seen both IRL and on video, so many examples of lighting-fast inference and seemingly excellent accuracy in the police car systems. It seems like we aren't that far away if we can get a large enough training set. While @MikeLud1 understands the inner-workings of the model far better than I do, we have discussed a fair amount, and it seems like we have plenty of resources to train a model on a very very large data set once we collect enough images. My hope is that we can at least get close to what the commercial solutions are offering.

 

[algertc]

I got the AI image processing almost working! Going to make sure everything is organized the best way possible this weekend, then it should be ready for release.

I think I showcased this before, but for those who have been correcting their records (very helpful for the AI btw), this should be a really nice feature:

 

[PeteJ]

I ordered one of the Motorola cameras that @TheWaterbug mentioned previously. Hoping it might contain some free billion dollar magic for 30 dollars...

What I have noticed with the lyorta's is that they are very hesitant to switch IR/daylight modes. You really need to set a manual schedule in Blue Iris. I missed a whole lot of plates between 5-8am because of this and never really addressed it until recently.

If Motorolas are consistently available, that's gotta be a killer solution, but otherwise (or for any lyorta/dahua users [most]), maybe an addition or revision to the cliff notes could be helpful. I know there are threads talking about settings, but I myself have combed through them without much clarity in the past. A more detailed dummy's guide to ALPR could be nice for a lot of folks.


Edit:
Also, if there is, in fact, some sort of special image processing embedded in the Motorola devices, coupling that with the power of crowdsourced global residential image collection could create a near professional-grade LPR solution... The fact that these devices are available secondhand and that we are able to collect data that they otherwise couldn't really is an exciting prospect.

I've seen both IRL and on video, so many examples of lighting-fast inference and seemingly excellent accuracy in the police car systems. It seems like we aren't that far away if we can get a large enough training set. While @MikeLud1 understands the inner-workings of the model far better than I do, we have discussed a fair amount, and it seems like we have plenty of resources to train a model on a very very large data set once we collect enough images. My hope is that we can at least get close to what the commercial solutions are offering.

Unfortunately the $30 camera doesn't have the magic silicon. If you want that camera, it's a little just slightly more:

Motorola LPR 25mm L5F vigilant solutions VSR-50-925 NEW Camera License Plate | eBay

If used with Car Detector Fixed or a VLP, you can set this up to also report missing plates for cars that have no plates, or the plates are covered, it will capture temp plates, plates with magnification spots, plates with the tinted covers on them, plates with the small letters, motorcycle...

www.ebay.com

The L5F model has an Nvidia Jetson inside that handles the LPR functionality. I'm waiting for cities to start throwing these away.

 

[algertc]

Unfortunately the $30 camera doesn't have the magic silicon. If you want that camera, it's a little just slightly more:

Motorola LPR 25mm L5F vigilant solutions VSR-50-925 NEW Camera License Plate | eBay

If used with Car Detector Fixed or a VLP, you can set this up to also report missing plates for cars that have no plates, or the plates are covered, it will capture temp plates, plates with magnification spots, plates with the tinted covers on them, plates with the small letters, motorcycle...

www.ebay.com

The L5F model has an Nvidia Jetson inside that handles the LPR functionality. I'm waiting for cities to start throwing these away.

Ik it doesn’t have the processing in it. The night image just looked so crisp tho so I’m wondering if the cam itself will be any better

 

[wpiman]

I tried the double SDR w RPI 4, and it was working ok... Not phenomenal, but part of that could have been antennae.

The main reasons I want to try a homebrew alternative are the cost, heat, and over-provisioning. I realized that that TI IC I linked before would be more complicated to use, but some of the modules might be more straightforward? Still not sure...

If any even medium-sized semi-technically competent company were trying to do this, I feel like they would opt for something more robust and cheaper than a USB SDR in an RPI... I think it's perfectly attainable for us too. It's just a matter of figuring it out and getting it working.

I'm confident I could get a custom circuit to work perfectly fine, but I want the BEST possible version with the best parts (which seems like it will still be way cheaper than double SDR RPI). I bet I can find someone with expertise to offer some professional advice and lend a helping hand.

There are some Arduino receivers that operate in this range.... 415 and the 315.......

So people said the range is bad-- another guy said over 100 feet.....

https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Raspberry/dp/B01DKC2EY4/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1AE625L1540BW&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Q7ovem9M8Zb6CEB9jfuJMrb_9XZ6Kwr2RvddHcqYJQNXtVpTDugeTC-X-PrLG_A2QQ_H9xCDeNtiZ8i9m73pQtiLrlEj8ku2OMOscUr5vGXUX_MERzUbZWqrFVqr4ahNLVXolWWgBGSbZzWAcOpdfnxSoqo-nJl3npGlTLtDV3sVgq5eJqHIjaLfuf_HVGXGMh1ILbXU0NVfILO4LEP3UFRiW8Penquj_Jq71ANN1KNmSIoHp67ZhkUBvSaZGbVNE57hwQxwkU6KeyViH_-OD_pHZtpovU0XMs2GXdkJV-Mc13zwI7o94FLLeJTZsgUYbiKIVh5Q8iop2YpGKkM0Wo2N53KzArEAgex0cMjUjyJC2nzx6ch1fG0zR-eXI7uiKVw9x0FWxq20TlWXXmjsD7ynt9fXvljCUNhkWEd4fO4IJCMtxIEZ0wDfY_pTAQ51.ZtSLWKn7DH-zbg8ASShRGHPfBTC-jg-nQOljaHu_fjs&dib_tag=se&keywords=iHaosapce+5+Packs+433MHz+RF+Wireless+Transmitter+and+Receiver+Module+Kits+For+Arduino+Raspberry+P&qid=1742080634&sprefix=ihaosapce+5+packs+433mhz+rf+wireless+transmitter+and+receiver+module+kits+for+arduino+raspberry+p%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-4

 

[algertc]

There are some Arduino receivers that operate in this range.... 415 and the 315.......

So people said the range is bad-- another guy said over 100 feet.....

https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo-Wireless-Transmitter-Receiver-Raspberry/dp/B01DKC2EY4/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1AE625L1540BW&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.Q7ovem9M8Zb6CEB9jfuJMrb_9XZ6Kwr2RvddHcqYJQNXtVpTDugeTC-X-PrLG_A2QQ_H9xCDeNtiZ8i9m73pQtiLrlEj8ku2OMOscUr5vGXUX_MERzUbZWqrFVqr4ahNLVXolWWgBGSbZzWAcOpdfnxSoqo-nJl3npGlTLtDV3sVgq5eJqHIjaLfuf_HVGXGMh1ILbXU0NVfILO4LEP3UFRiW8Penquj_Jq71ANN1KNmSIoHp67ZhkUBvSaZGbVNE57hwQxwkU6KeyViH_-OD_pHZtpovU0XMs2GXdkJV-Mc13zwI7o94FLLeJTZsgUYbiKIVh5Q8iop2YpGKkM0Wo2N53KzArEAgex0cMjUjyJC2nzx6ch1fG0zR-eXI7uiKVw9x0FWxq20TlWXXmjsD7ynt9fXvljCUNhkWEd4fO4IJCMtxIEZ0wDfY_pTAQ51.ZtSLWKn7DH-zbg8ASShRGHPfBTC-jg-nQOljaHu_fjs&dib_tag=se&keywords=iHaosapce+5+Packs+433MHz+RF+Wireless+Transmitter+and+Receiver+Module+Kits+For+Arduino+Raspberry+P&qid=1742080634&sprefix=ihaosapce+5+packs+433mhz+rf+wireless+transmitter+and+receiver+module+kits+for+arduino+raspberry+p%2Caps%2C143&sr=8-4

I was looking at some like this on digikey that seemed to be a bit better quality. It is a bit tough to find module versions (not IC) that are of decent quality since this is sort of old technology now. I'd like to use something like this though for sure.

 

[algertc]

On the topic of detecting fake plates:

An HOA near me has a $5,000/yr subscription to a company called Flock Safety for 2 ALPR cameras on their little private road. I was looking at the Flock app (which actually looks very cool. Might take some inspiration from it) and it seems like they figured out some way to do it:

Marketing content, so I'm not sure how accurate their fake plate detection actually is, but interesting nonetheless to see it advertised.

 

[wittaj]

On the topic of detecting fake plates:

An HOA near me has a $5,000/yr subscription to a company called Flock Safety for 2 ALPR cameras on their little private road. I was looking at the Flock app (which actually looks very cool. Might take some inspiration from it) and it seems like they figured out some way to do it:

View attachment 216840

Marketing content, so I'm not sure how accurate their fake plate detection actually is, but interesting nonetheless to see it advertised.

Yeah we have talked about Flock before here - pricey LOL. I would think they are running VINs based on plates and if the vehicle doesn't match, the Fake Plate comes up.

 

[algertc]

Ahhh, you're totally right. I just saw the below on their website which suggests that they're offering DMV lookup access to private businesses???? Do you know if that's true?

I might try to add amber alert integration if it's not too hard.

 

[wittaj]

Ahhh, you're totally right. I just saw the below on their website which suggests that they're offering DMV lookup access to private businesses???? Do you know if that's true?

View attachment 216842

I might try to add amber alert integration if it's not too hard.

I have looked into this before and only government and insurance companies can gain that access. I would be shocked if Flock allows a private business access to the owner information.

 

[algertc]

I have looked into this before and only government and insurance companies can gain that access. I would be shocked if Flock allows a private business access to the owner information.

Alright yeah that figures. I was very skeptical.

 

[MikeLud1]

Here is what Claude AI says they do to detect fake plates

 

[observant1]

That's too much money. You can get a quality ALPR cam with all the goodies to plug into your NVR and is very easy to set up. I don't want to pay 600.00 for 1 but it's better than 3600.00.....imho.

 

[observant1]

Here is what Claude AI says they do to detect fake plates

View attachment 216843

I talked to one of my state reps about flock cams and he said some localities do not allow them. I live in Alabama, so i can't comment on other locations.

It may be different for a gated HOA or such.....

 

[wittaj]

I talked to one of my state reps about flock cams and he said some localities do not allow them. I live in Alabama, so i can't comment on other locations.

It may be different for a gated HOA or such.....

Yep.

Thread 'Flock installed LPR's without permits and has now been banned from operating in two states'

Mar 4, 2024

An AI license plate surveillance startup installed hundreds of cameras without permission

Flock installed its surveillance cameras without permits, and has now been banned from operating in two states

qz.com

• jd415
• Replies: 33
• Forum: LPR

• 
• 

 

[algertc]

I talked to one of my state reps about flock cams and he said some localities do not allow them. I live in Alabama, so i can't comment on other locations.

It may be different for a gated HOA or such.....

California has a code with a bunch of requirements for using ALPRs, but it all relates to security disclosures and the use of personal information. So it really only applies to gov agencies, insurance companies, large corporations etc. who have actual personal information tied to all the records.

The ACLU is supposedly trying to restrict the legality to law enforcement use only, but I don't see how that's possible.


You can't make it illegal for people to record traffic outside their homes and use AI on their own recordings. I don't doubt that some places have tried or created ordinances, but I don't see how that could ever hold up.

 

[algertc]

California DMV registration data leak disclosure

California has had so many sensitive data leaks it's kind of insane. I did a quick search thinking it wouldn't be unlikely the DMV was compromised at some point. There it is lol.


While I definitely can't build anything into the app that directly suggests using such leaked data, I could add something to allow lookup against an external private database of your own... Perhaps one that you created after stumbling upon a torrent full of license plate records on the internet... But definitely not leaked government data because that would be illegal....

 

[samplenhold]

Those databases would stale quite quickly. You would have to refresh often.

You can get a quality ALPR cam with all the goodies to plug into your NVR and is very easy to set up.

Flock is more interested in selling to non-homeowners. The reason they get the business is that the customer does not have to plug it into their NVR. They do nothing. It is all transparent to the customer.

 

[prsmith777]

after stumbling upon a torrent full of license plate records on the internet...

 

[algertc]

Those databases would stale quite quickly. You would have to refresh often.

I mean, yeah, partly. But I'm sure many are still accurate. Most people keeping cars for quite a while. And even if there's a sale. It's still somewhere to start.