Hello from NZ

[Madgame87]

Hi guys,

We're in the process of building a new house and have just gone through an electrical walkthrough. A security system was bought up by the electrician and he suggested we go for a wired system — previously I was all about wireless tech — Arlo's, Eufy's etc. but further research in Reddit and other forums said to forget about it. So at the very last minute, he's gone ahead and laid some Cat6 solid wiring in 4x locations in around house.. phew!

Now we could relax a little and research some IP camera options.

So over the last few weeks, I've been looking into some easy plug and play options — initial research lead me to Swann which were readily available locally but not recommended at all. I then looked into Reolink which fit the bill — plug and play system, decently priced and a reasonable app UI. I then stumbled upon this forum and no Bueno, I read there's an issue with the firmware not allowing a user to set the keyframe interval, which in turn would mean the detection won't be as accurate (Is this a blocker? Bear in mind we're not after anything overly complex). The Hook Up did recommend the RLC-810a as a decent system:

Now, I'm broadening my options and looking into Dahua and Hikvision.

Requirements:

• Up to 4k in resolution
• Excellent day time vision and night time vision (note: there'll be a fixed street light in front of the house and surrounding homes)
• The cameras will be mounted on soffits (black to be exact)
• Ideally a built-in siren and two-way audio (we have pets and there have been ongoing stores of pets being stolen for bait. Having two-way audio and alarm would at least be another deterrent)
• Great app and UI — my wife will also want access to see and monitor the cameras remotely. Does the Hik-connect app have an easy to use UI?
• Local storage for now — happy for footage to be overwritten automatically (is this a feature?)
• Blue Iris compatibility — I'm not the one to tinker with settings as I prefer to set and forget until adjustments are required. Is there a 101 on Blue Iris?
• A budget of approx. $750 USD shipped (4x cameras & NVR)

My research has led me to the Hikvision DS-2CD2386G2-ISU/SL which has a siren and two audio. My only gripe (being precious here) is it's a turret and it's white. I'd prefer a bullet-style camera. So far the reviews I've read are great.

Hoping the community here could also provide some options and feedback based on the requirements above?

I'll continue to do my own research as well.

 

[samplenhold]

Welcome to the forum. Read the Cliff Notes and check out the WIKI. There are loads of info there to get you up to speed.

Realize that mounting cams on soffits can be problematic depending on how high the cams will be from the ground. If you want to get a good shot of someone's face to give to the police, cams should be mounted no more than 7 feet above ground. But that also depends on how far away the focus point is. You want a low angle of attack otherwise you get a good shot of the top of someone's head and no face.



Realize that 4k (8MP) cams will not give you good night shots due to the sensors used in those cams at your price point. Right now the best bang for the buck for good night video is the 4MP cams on 1/1.8" sensors. Both Dahua and Hik have good cams with those formats.

You really need to think about requirements for each planned location separately. What do you expect to see from each location? Do you expect to be able to ID a person? Or are you just wanting to see a good overview? You will never get both from the same cam. Most folks want to know 'who did it' more than 'what did they do'. While overview cams can play a role, for only 4 drops using overview cams probably will not get you a view that will give you info on the perp. See the following threads for that issue. Each thread shows individual cams that can ID a person and what overview cams capture.

Why I Like Redundant Views/Multiple Cam Views

A lot of newbies ask for help with their camera setups and most think that they can get by with a single cam to cover quite a bit of area. While that is possible if all you are interested in is a wide-angle overview, it usually will not give you a great chance of getting a face shot good enough...

ipcamtalk.com

Why I like Continuous Recording (aka 24/7)

So a guy came to the door yesterday, and while my wife did not open the door, it kind of spooked her out. She said he seem suspicious saying he found a driver's license on the lawn and wanted to know if it belonged to her. So when I got back from the range, I checked out the cams. This is one...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Madgame87]

Thanks for your reply.

Realize that mounting cams on soffits can be problematic depending on how high the cams will be from the ground. If you want to get a good shot of someone's face to give to the police, cams should be mounted no more than 7 feet above ground. But that also depends on how far away the focus point is. You want a low angle of attack otherwise you get a good shot of the top of someone's head and no face.

The driveway is relatively short, so will be sure to mount it a bit lower if possible.

Realize that 4k (8MP) cams will not give you good night shots due to the sensors used in those cams at your price point. Right now the best bang for the buck for good night video is the 4MP cams on 1/1.8" sensors. Both Dahua and Hik have good cams with those formats.

You really need to think about requirements for each planned location separately. What do you expect to see from each location? Do you expect to be able to ID a person? Or are you just wanting to see a good overview? You will never get both from the same cam. Most folks want to know 'who did it' more than 'what did they do'. While overview cams can play a role, for only 4 drops using overview cams probably will not get you a view that will give you info on the perp. See the following threads for that issue. Each thread shows individual cams that can ID a person and what overview cams capture.

I'll have a look at those camera specs and see what I can find.

We're expecting to see a good overview. We don't anticipate the area to be full of burglars, it's more a piece of mind. But I'll be sure to read that link you provided as it might open our minds a lot more.

After a reading a few threads I do want to reiterate that we do have a budget in mind so we just have to work with what we've can afford.

 

[samplenhold]

We're expecting to see a good overview. We don't anticipate the area to be full of burglars, it's more a piece of mind.

My area is not 'full of burglars' either. But we do get the few door checkers come by now and then. The feeling of being violated, and then having cams that record the incident, but are not good enough to give the police any help, is the worst feeling.

In one incident here thin 2019, the guy down the street had his pickup truck rummaged through one night when he forgot to lock it. He had three Arlo cams record the whole thing. But none of the video was worth anything. Yes you could see someone go to his truck, open the door, get in and take some stuff, but you could not get any facial shots or even tell the color of the clothing. His wife was pissed: "So you spent a grand on those cams and you can't even tell if it was a guy or a girl?!!"

This is the pic of one of the guys that hit the neighborhood that night checking my door, but it was locked. I gave the video and stills to the police and the cop says "Yeah, I know that guy".



Back last April, a door checker hit several cars and took quit a bit of stuff. I caught a good profile of him in my driveway and gave it to the police. They posted it on their Facebook page and in a day he was ID'd and arrested. My neighbor's cam across the street, a Ring, gave a really crappy shot with lots of blur and false color. He was hiding from a pickup truck that was coming down the street.

 

[Madgame87]

Wow. What cameras are you running? Your driveway design is very similar to ours.

I would absolutely love a siren/two-way audio to warn the burglars, but also have a camera that's clear enough to post up photos in a local community group.

 

[samplenhold]

What cameras are you running?

These pics are from the Dahua HDW5231R-ZE that I bought in 2018. They are 2MP varifocal cams on 1/2.8" sensors. I have replaced them with the newer Dahua T5442TM-AS in 6mm, which is a 4MP cam on a 1/1.8" sensor and is considered the current best bang for the buck in the prosumer line for color night vision. I also comes in a varifocal model. Hik also has similar cams.

This is an example of focusing on the particular view rather than a wide angle overview. I park that car in my driveway and it is a potential magnet for perps. So the idea is to put two cams in a crossing view that are focused on that area giving enough pixels at the specific distance to see a face clearly. I do have a high mounted overview cam there also. This allows me to view where the perps cam from and went after they did their respective actions.

Here is a pic of the installation.

 

[mat200]

Hi guys,

We're in the process of building a new house and have just gone through an electrical walkthrough. A security system was bought up by the electrician and he suggested we go for a wired system — previously I was all about wireless tech — Arlo's, Eufy's etc. but further research in Reddit and other forums said to forget about it. So at the very last minute, he's gone ahead and laid some Cat6 solid wiring in 4x locations in around house.. phew!

Now we could relax a little and research some IP camera options.

So over the last few weeks, I've been looking into some easy plug and play options — initial research lead me to Swann which were readily available locally but not recommended at all. I then looked into Reolink which fit the bill — plug and play system, decently priced and a reasonable app UI. I then stumbled upon this forum and no Bueno, I read there's an issue with the firmware not allowing a user to set the keyframe interval, which in turn would mean the detection won't be as accurate (Is this a blocker? Bear in mind we're not after anything overly complex). The Hook Up did recommend the RLC-810a as a decent system:

Now, I'm broadening my options and looking into Dahua and Hikvision.

Requirements:

• Up to 4k in resolution
• Excellent day time vision and night time vision (note: there'll be a fixed street light in front of the house and surrounding homes)
• The cameras will be mounted on soffits (black to be exact)
• Ideally a built-in siren and two-way audio (we have pets and there have been ongoing stores of pets being stolen for bait. Having two-way audio and alarm would at least be another deterrent)
• Great app and UI — my wife will also want access to see and monitor the cameras remotely. Does the Hik-connect app have an easy to use UI?
• Local storage for now — happy for footage to be overwritten automatically (is this a feature?)
• Blue Iris compatibility — I'm not the one to tinker with settings as I prefer to set and forget until adjustments are required. Is there a 101 on Blue Iris?
• A budget of approx. $750 USD shipped (4x cameras & NVR)

My research has led me to the Hikvision DS-2CD2386G2-ISU/SL which has a siren and two audio. My only gripe (being precious here) is it's a turret and it's white. I'd prefer a bullet-style camera. So far the reviews I've read are great.

Hoping the community here could also provide some options and feedback based on the requirements above?

I'll continue to do my own research as well.

Welcome @Madgame87

Warning.. Warning.. Warning...

The Hook UP - does a complete jacked up job on his reviews.. YOU CAN NOT Trust him.. please see the thread on that here at ipcamtalk.

Please remember to do your homework before the walls get finished in your new home.

update:
link added Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

 

[mat200]

Hi guys,

We're in the process of building a new house and have just gone through an electrical walkthrough. A security system was bought up by the electrician and he suggested we go for a wired system ..


Requirements:

• Up to 4k in resolution
• Excellent day time vision and night time vision (note: there'll be a fixed street light in front of the house and surrounding homes)
• The cameras will be mounted on soffits (black to be exact)
• Ideally a built-in siren and two-way audio (we have pets and there have been ongoing stores of pets being stolen for bait. Having two-way audio and alarm would at least be another deterrent)
• Great app and UI — my wife will also want access to see and monitor the cameras remotely. Does the Hik-connect app have an easy to use UI?
• Local storage for now — happy for footage to be overwritten automatically (is this a feature?)
• Blue Iris compatibility — I'm not the one to tinker with settings as I prefer to set and forget until adjustments are required. Is there a 101 on Blue Iris?
• A budget of approx. $750 USD shipped (4x cameras & NVR)

My research has led me to the Hikvision DS-2CD2386G2-ISU/SL which has a siren and two audio. My only gripe (being precious here) is it's a turret and it's white. I'd prefer a bullet-style camera. So far the reviews I've read are great.

Hoping the community here could also provide some options and feedback based on the requirements above?

I'll continue to do my own research as well.

Welcome @Madgame87

I've got a little more time.. see you've got some good responses.

1) Is the Framing up in the house already?
2) Is the "drywall" up in the house?
3) Issue: "The cameras will be mounted on soffits" : This is typically too high to accomplish a good angle for an ID facial images. You will need to mount cameras typicaly 6-8 feet high - or about 2M +/-
4) Over cable
5) wire for security alarms .. doors, windows...
6) Plan for more cameras than you initially thought - even if you only put in 1/2 the cameras to start...
7) Focus on functional goals first.. then budget... ( example, I love to buy a house in NZ for less than $100k USD .. but .. that probably isn't a reality in a location or type of house I want to live in.. )

See the cliff notes for more. See SourthYankee's executive summary list.. gets longer and longer... so read it sooner

 

[SouthernYankee]

Get the wiring done first, more is better. Do not worry about the cameras until much later
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.


Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS Ver 2, 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera
IPC-K42A

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post
Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com home construction

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[Madgame87]

Thanks team. Have been lurking and lurking.

After reading more and more — specifically around sensor size and megapixels. Is it worthwhile I'm now considering a 4mp camera with a 1/3" sensor? (DS-2CD2046G2-IU)

The must for me is a siren/strobe light.

 

[sebastiantombs]

4MP on a 1/3" sensor will be basically blind at night. A siren and strobe are not much use, miscreants just ignore them.

 

[SouthernYankee]

The siren and strobe are good for the police and neighbors to identify the house. They are a little use, but not much to chase off the bad guys. The siren and strobe should be connected to the home alarm system and should only go off after a break-in. They should NOT be connected to the outside camera, unless you live way out in the country without neighbors.

 

[mat200]

Thanks team. Have been lurking and lurking.

After reading more and more — specifically around sensor size and megapixels. Is it worthwhile I'm now considering a 4mp camera with a 1/3" sensor? (DS-2CD2046G2-IU)

The must for me is a siren/strobe light.

HI @Madgame87

With better sensors around, I plan not to purchase any new cameras with smaller sensors.

 

[Madgame87]

Posted from another thread:


Excuse the amateur-hour drawing. But here's our floor plan. As you can see we have an allowance for 4x cameras and these are where we'll be placing them. We didn't opt for a 5th camera on the left-hand side due to the house being in close proximity to the fence and the neighbour's house.

There are also a few street-lights opposite us as well as ambient lighting from our neighbour's house (likely to be on/off) throughout the night.

I would classify the street as a low-light street. There's also an unfortunate event of dog-kidnapping around the neighbourhood which is why we're looking for a deterrent-style camera system. By the time we review footage, go to the police etc. It'll be too late

I would be looking at a 2.8mm lens for the front 2x cameras for a wider FOV, then maybe a 4mm lens for the rear cameras.

I'm slowly doing more and more research and have kind of narrowed it down to Hikvision 2386, 5442 or 4MP ColorVu — obviously the preference being with a deterrent/decent day/night quality.

Would happily sacrifice day-time quality for decent night-time quality.

 

[wittaj]

My response to the other thread so you all don't have to repeat what I said LOL and can agree or chime in with additional thoughts...

Review Video of the 8mp Hikvision Darkfighter with active deterrence DS-2CD2386G2-ISU/SL

For almost 1 month now I have been testing out a OEM version of the Hikvision DS-2CD2386G2-ISU/SL 2.8mm that I received from one of my suppliers. DS-2CD2386G2-ISU/SL Similar to the G2 ColorVu turret, this camera has impressed me with the inclusion of Acusense combined with its Darkfighter...

ipcamtalk.com

These companies play "games" LOL and people think a 1/3 sensor sounds bigger than a 1/1.8" sensor, but it is a fraction so it actually opposite. A 4MP 1/3" sensor would be horrible and even worse...

I would suggest try one varifocal camera first to get your feet wet and understand how these cameras work. The 5442 series has several varifocals available - a turret style up to 12mm and a bullet style up to 32mm.

The biggest mistake people make is trying to make a camera do too much. A 2.8mm or 4mm camera is a great overview camera to be able to tell that something happened, but anybody more than 10 feet away and realistically you will not be able to ID them.

Take a look at this chart - to identify someone with the 2.8mm lens popular someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system that had fixed 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams - those cams sure looks nice and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at 15 feet out. At night you cannot even ID someone from 10 feet. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my 2MP varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police.

Based on what you are showing you are trying to cover, you will be initially amazed at how far out you can see and how much you can see with a 2.8mm or 4mm fixed lens, but you will not be able to identify anyone on the road with that lens. Post #4 up in this thread shows how close someone needs to be to be useful for other than "yeah, I can tell someone walked by and checked the mailbox, but can't make out a face."

 

[SouthernYankee]

Do not known about NZ. but in the USA with the number of bad guys check car doors is very high. Two cameras on the outside of the garage door, no higher than the top of the door point straigh down the driveway, use a 4mm lens. A 2.8MM lens will show what happens but not who did it.

I have 3 cameras on my front door, one point from an over hang back at the door, one pointing at the package drop area, and one point out from the door bell. Also an added camera inside pointing at the door.

Follow the direction in my previous post. Get one good variable focus camera and your location.

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Doing it right the first time will save you money.
Test do not guess

 

[Mark_M]

I never saw this thread when it popped up:

I'm in NZ as well, up in Auckland.
I have purchased from EmpireTecAndy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) and the camera is currently in use. Shipping to NZ was 3 days. Faster than sending a parcel to the South island!!

Other than that, there's not much Dahua within NZ.
I have occasionally bought a cheap one from TradeMe but they don't compare in offerings like Andy's with large imaging sensors.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The current best sensor size to resolution if you want decent low light, night, performance -

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)