New system for parents (and other questions)

[ipcamforum329403204]

So I'm doing a new IP camera system for my parents, they want roughly 6 cameras. I've been looking a ton on amazon and costco for complete systems and also individual cameras and I have some questions. Before I ask them, here's some background. At my house I have these cameras:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PNF7DQT/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

. They are pretty solid, for the price of $55. I run them all to a switch closet and cheap POE switch (like 30 bucks I think?) and from there to my main LAN switch. I run a dell server for my whole house stuff, home media server, camera records, etc. It also runs blue iris but I don't use it much, typically just open the RTSP stream individually in VLC with shortcuts. That being said, I don't think that's a good solution for my older, less tech savvy parents. So I was looking at just an all in one solution. Just a handful of cameras, wired to a POE switch, to an NVR (or an NVR with built in POE). This is the way to go, right?

Another question is, most of the cameras I see on amazon are cheap Chinese junk. My cameras are ok, the picture quality is good but you can tell it's not a very premium product. It seems to me that the more premium products, especially designed for home owners, aren't all that high performance either. A lot of those are wireless, and/or push or require the feed to go to the cloud? I just want something that they can open with their phones and see all the camera feeds locally like Blue Iris and not be bottle necked by internet speed (they live in the boonies). And these DVR/NVRs seem kinda cheap too. Is it just a single 1 TB hard disk in there? I can't imagine that performance would be all that great recording 6 feeds of HD at once AND trying to do any playback. Isn't that just a stuttering mess?

I might be spoiled as I have 40 TB (I think) in a RAID 10 (so like 19ish usable) in my poweredge server. I would imagine that disk performance in that configuration would be so much better than a single (probably low quality disk) trying to read/write 6 HD feeds at once, right? I haven't used a cheap DVR/NVR so how is the performance on that?

Should I just get 6 of those cameras I linked and then buy a DVR/NVR individually? Which one would you suggest?

Also, do the pros use these same chinesium crap? I try to look at what they've got (like the billion dollar businesses) and I've seen some bosch stuff which looks pretty nice. Is that possible to get or is it a million dollars? I can't seem to find any "high end" stuff on amazon. Thanks.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Look in the WiKi, in the blue bar, at the top of the page. There's a ton of information in there that you will find very useful for designing and installing a surveillance system. High quality cameras are available, Dauhua, Hikvision and OEM versions of both. Don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size. Rule of thumb is that a 4K camera will perform half as well in low light conditions as a 2K camera with the same size sensor. Plan, test, then think about an installation.

 

[samplenhold]

As Sebastian said.

Also read the Cliff Notes.

To try and answer some of your specific questions...billion dollar businesses use professional cams that generally cost upwards of $1k each. Most folks here are using prosumer grade cams from Dahua or Hikvision, and some are using the respective OEM versions. These cams run $120-$220 depending on the cam and it's desired specs needed for the individual job it is being tasked with. Large PTZ cams can run in the $350-$700 range.

The dome cam you linked to is a low quality cam. It is a 5MP cam but even on the manufacturer's website for that cam no specifications are ever given. No info on the sensor. It has a wide angle 2.8mm lens that is only good for an overview and will rarely give you a good shot of a face unless the perp is very close to the cam. Domes are not recommended for outside. Their plastic dome get dirty fast, rain makes droplets on it that totally smurf up the image, the IR reflects at night, and UV light fogs the dome over time.

If your folks are tech challenged, then may be using an NVR would be best. If that is the case, then choose the NVR that is the same brand as the cams.

You really have to decide what your parents needs are. Most people here are really into recording enough data that a perp can be identified and the video used to convict them. That means quality video that gives a good face shot and other info as to clothing colors and markings. To get that at night, good low-light performing cams are a must.

Most new folks coming in here are of the idea that wide angle overview cams are all they want. They want to see what happened. But when something DOES happen, and their video is not good enough to get a good shot of someone's face, they are then very disappointed with their system.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Start with one good quality variable focus camera, test the camera at night with the "Bad Guy" wearing a hoodie looking down. If you can not ID them then your camera is in the wrong place.

As a note, I have two cameras mounted on the garage one on each side no higher than the top of the door. The front door has three cameras, one pointing out, one pointing in and one pointing at the package drop location. That is just a start.
==============================================
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) your first camera should be a good variable focus camera to check camera placement and the correct lens.
3) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them ?

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/#post-373517

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

 

[ipcamforum329403204]

As Sebastian said.

Also read the Cliff Notes.

To try and answer some of your specific questions...billion dollar businesses use professional cams that generally cost upwards of $1k each. Most folks here are using prosumer grade cams from Dahua or Hikvision, and some are using the respective OEM versions. These cams run $120-$220 depending on the cam and it's desired specs needed for the individual job it is being tasked with. Large PTZ cams can run in the $350-$700 range.

The dome cam you linked to is a low quality cam. It is a 5MP cam but even on the manufacturer's website for that cam no specifications are ever given. No info on the sensor. It has a wide angle 2.8mm lens that is only good for an overview and will rarely give you a good shot of a face unless the perp is very close to the cam. Domes are not recommended for outside. Their plastic dome get dirty fast, rain makes droplets on it that totally smurf up the image, the IR reflects at night, and UV light fogs the dome over time.

If your folks are tech challenged, then may be using an NVR would be best. If that is the case, then choose the NVR that is the same brand as the cams.

You really have to decide what your parents needs are. Most people here are really into recording enough data that a perp can be identified and the video used to convict them. That means quality video that gives a good face shot and other info as to clothing colors and markings. To get that at night, good low-light performing cams are a must.

Most new folks coming in here are of the idea that wide angle overview cams are all they want. They want to see what happened. But when something DOES happen, and their video is not good enough to get a good shot of someone's face, they are then very disappointed with their system.

That's great, thanks. So how about a small business, what would they typically use? Let's say a restaurant, gas station, laundry mat, that kind of thing. I'm sure they aren't paying $1,000 per camera, are they? Are they just using the consumer Chinese junk too? Basically the same as a home owner, they are using a ~$1,000 system? I have tried to look at the brands around here and it looks like most of the government, city, parking lot, etc. cameras are UNV which looks to me like cheap chinese stuff.

Another question:

https://www.costco.com/lorex-4k-uhd-8-channel-fusion-nvr-security-system-with-8-smart-deterrence-4k--cameras.product.100675117.html

https://www.costco.com/lorex-4k-ultra-hd-8-channel-dvr-security-system-with-6-4k-active-deterrence-cameras-with-color-night-vision---smart-motion-detection-and-smart-home-voice-control.product.100681515.html

I'm leaning towards the top one. I have read some posts in this forum about how Lorex is owned by Dahua (which is....ok I guess). My first IP camera was actually a dahua bullet and it left a really bad taste in my mouth. The site only worked with IE, needed a plugin, password couldn't use any special characters (just numbers and letters), and the only browser it would actually work on, IE, was glitched to hell where the play window was distorted over much of the text and option buttons. Have you all had that type of experience? Even with my current cameras they can't accept special characters as passwords.

Anyway, I have read that the sensor size is the most important thing, and the top one has a bigger sensor size (something like .55 vs .35). Not to mention it has 2 more cameras, they are a metal/alloy material, dual light vs the other system which has plastic cameras, a single light, and a DVR as opposed to an NVR (which is apparently better). So for an extra $250, it seems like a no brainer.

I guess my question is, is there anything in that price range that you all would recommend over the $650 system? Price is not really a concern to me, to a point. As in, if it costs 800, 1000, 1200 dollars, I don't really care. To the point where it gets to be 500+ bucks a camera though, I'm not trying to spend 8,000 bucks. I guess I'll pick it up and test it out but if you guys have a hierarchy chart or something where this is the "best" system in the 600 dollar range, but if you step up to 1,000 bucks, then get the Nest system or whatever, that would be cool.

I guess I just have a feeling the system is going to disappoint me but I'm not really sure what to get instead. I'm not that picky and not unrealistic. I don't expect to be able to CSI:Enhance, enhance, enhance, enhace, look at the reflection on his sunglasses, there's the bad guy. LoL. Just a general idea of what's going on to a reasonable level of wide angle detail. What type of car is in the driveway, what make and model. If I can't catch the license plate, that's fine. But I don't want some glitchy piece of crap that barely pulls up the jerky video because the NVR is so weak that it can't process all the 4k streams with ease. You get what I'm saying.

I looked at the spec sheet (where I found the sensor size was larger than the 2nd system) but of course it doesn't tell you much good info like ram/processor capability of the NVR and that kind of thing. Is there a forum post that says something like: "Here's the system we recommend at $500, $1000, $1500, $2000". That would be great, if so can you post the link? Thanks for the advice. The bit about the dome cameras was news to me. My dome camera is awesome (for the ~60 bucks it cost me) but it is in the back of my carport so perhaps I should think again before putting on more exposed. Thanks.

 

[ipcamforum329403204]

Start with one good quality variable focus camera, test the camera at night with the "Bad Guy" wearing a hoodie looking down. If you can not ID them then your camera is in the wrong place.

As a note, I have two cameras mounted on the garage one on each side no higher than the top of the door. The front door has three cameras, one pointing out, one pointing in and one pointing at the package drop location. That is just a start.
==============================================
My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.

Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) your first camera should be a good variable focus camera to check camera placement and the correct lens.
3) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them ?

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- MP variable focus AI
IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A

https://ipcamtalk.com/threads/review-dahua-ipc-k35a-3mp-cube-camera.37581/#post-373517

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Newbie Starter Guide to IP Cam System – VPN setup – Computer Hardware – Blue Iris – Dahua Cameras

This is an intermediate / newbie guide for people just starting out looking for a surveillance setup. I know this setup might not be for everyone and there are many options. You can find a lot of this information in the Wiki: IP Cam Talk Wiki | IP Cam Talk A great place to start in the Wiki...

ipcamtalk.com

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Test do not guess

That's good, thanks. Yeah, I don't expect to be able to make out a hooded masked guy in the middle of the night. I'd say my expectations are relatively low/reasonable. Just knowing, "hey someone was on my property at this time and they are wearing a hoodie" is probably sufficient.

1. I'll probably get them one of those Ring monitored things. Unless there's a different system you'd install/recommend.
2. Interesting. I was planning on just using the same identical camera set.
3. Prob. Dahua (aka Lorex) unless someone recommends something better.
4. I use untangle at my home (which runs OpenVPN). I use that to view my own cameras. Not sure what I'll do with the parentals though...
5. Ew, wifi....
6. Hate cloud bs (as it pertains to camera feeds)
7. I don't think I do at my house?
8. I've read it's all about sensor size.
9. Ok but it seems most cameras are from China
10. Copy that. The main thing that turns me off from Arlo/nest/ring is the wireless and cloud crap anyway.
11. Nice! This is the kind of info I was looking for. I went with dome because I thought they were more "water proof" for exterior use but if turret is then I'll go turret all the way where possible.
12. As an IT nerd, I never use CCA crap. Solid copper (and almost always cat6). If you're going to spend hours wiring up, it doesn't make sense to me to scrimp on cable cost for inferior cable.
13. Check.
14. No worries there.
15. Check.
16. Check.
17. POE all the way.
18. Check.
19. Check.
20. Sounds like overkill to me. We'll see.

I'm not sure I have the time/resources to go through all those (and other cameras). I guess I'll go with your bolded one and the two preferred ones first. See how that goes.

I use Blue Iris at my house. I don't think I'll need it at the parental units home since they'll just use the NVR IP yeah?

Thanks.

 

[ipcamforum329403204]

Look in the WiKi, in the blue bar, at the top of the page. There's a ton of information in there that you will find very useful for designing and installing a surveillance system. High quality cameras are available, Dauhua, Hikvision and OEM versions of both. Don't chase megapixels, chase sensor size. Rule of thumb is that a 4K camera will perform half as well in low light conditions as a 2K camera with the same size sensor. Plan, test, then think about an installation.

So then is that an argument, if you have a 4k camera, to record the footage in 2k res?

 

[SouthernYankee]

I recommend running a camera at it native resolution. The difference in a 4K(8mp) camera and a 4MP camera is that the 4MP has twice at much light per pixel for the same sensor size.

Surveillance Video is about night vision and identifying the bad guy. They come up and break the windows on your car and steal it, knowing they did it is a waste of money,
There is a recent post of a video of a guy getting car jacked in his driveway, the video is completely useless, you can not ID the bad guys.

Would your setup be able to ID these suspects

On the Chinese cameras, it is not that the cameras are manufactured in china, it is that there are cameras that are manufactured specifically for chine, that are HACKD to English and then resold. Theses cameras have zero support and are not upgradeable to newer firmware. Some vendors block the use of the hacked cameras on there NVRs.

-------------------------------------------------------

if you are interested in International Dahua cameras, a forum member sells dahua (and some Hikvision) and ships world wide. You can read some of the members recommendations on his service. He also provides cameras to other forum member for evaluation and reviews.
You can email him for a quote, or purchase from his Aliexpress store or his Amazon store. The cameras are fully upgradable, he posts upgrade software when available.

Current supply may be limited do to the Covid-19. Do to Covid-19 shipping has also gotten slow. I recommend email andy

Andy
@EMPIRETECANDY
kingsecurity2014@163.com
Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: EmpireTech Andy
Andy's AliExpress store: Empire Technology Co., Ltd - Amazing prodcuts with exclusive discounts on AliExpress
Andy's Amazon store: Amazon.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[mat200]

That's great, thanks. So how about a small business, what would they typically use? Let's say a restaurant, gas station, laundry mat, that kind of thing. I'm sure they aren't paying $1,000 per camera, are they? Are they just using the consumer Chinese junk too? Basically the same as a home owner, they are using a ~$1,000 system? I have tried to look at the brands around here and it looks like most of the government, city, parking lot, etc. cameras are UNV which looks to me like cheap chinese stuff.
...

Hi ipcamforum

Really depends on what you functionally need to accomplish.

For a business, do you want to see the currency value that your checker / customer places on the table?

Or do you just want to know someone is hiding behind a shelf?

This is where it really is a good idea to pick up one of the newer varifocal 1/1.8" cameras to play with .. 4MP for low light, 8MP if you have a well lighted setup ( like inside a store ).

Play around and decide what is important to you.

You can then build a more afford setup once you know more.

 

[ipcamforum329403204]

Hi ipcamforum

Really depends on what you functionally need to accomplish.

For a business, do you want to see the currency value that your checker / customer places on the table?

Or do you just want to know someone is hiding behind a shelf?

This is where it really is a good idea to pick up one of the newer varifocal 1/1.8" cameras to play with .. 4MP for low light, 8MP if you have a well lighted setup ( like inside a store ).

Play around and decide what is important to you.

You can then build a more afford setup once you know more.

Well that's a good question. I would go out on a limb and say the average place isn't going to spend more than, say, 3-5 grand on a camera system (for a small/medium shop or restaurant, let's say 800-1600 sq ft). So you tell me. Can we get that for the previously mentioned budget? Can we see the currency values, and all that stuff? I'd say at least one camera on front and back door, inside and out, and maybe one at the register/counter and one wide angle of the inside shop. So let's say 6-8 cameras, DVR, etc. Also remember, if they are going to pay someone to install it and run the wiring for it, that's going to cut into the budget. So if we said a budget of maybe 1800-3400 bucks on actual equipment. What $3,000 hardware would be "the best" for the money, for a restaurant/small business? And remember, let's assume they know zero. You guys are the expert. "They just want to record everything for security purposes and to 'check some stuff'". They are going to look at you hazy when you start talking about sensor size, dome/turret style, etc.

 

[mat200]

Well that's a good question. I would go out on a limb and say the average place isn't going to spend more than, say, 3-5 grand on a camera system (for a small/medium shop or restaurant, let's say 800-1600 sq ft). So you tell me. Can we get that for the previously mentioned budget? Can we see the currency values, and all that stuff? I'd say at least one camera on front and back door, inside and out, and maybe one at the register/counter and one wide angle of the inside shop. So let's say 6-8 cameras, DVR, etc. Also remember, if they are going to pay someone to install it and run the wiring for it, that's going to cut into the budget. So if we said a budget of maybe 1800-3400 bucks on actual equipment. What $3,000 hardware would be "the best" for the money, for a restaurant/small business? And remember, let's assume they know zero. You guys are the expert. "They just want to record everything for security purposes and to 'check some stuff'". They are going to look at you hazy when you start talking about sensor size, dome/turret style, etc.

Well that is a good question.

So let's go on the limb.

What sort of vehicle do you recommend that I buy?

 

[Old Timer]

One thing I would mention about your folks. If they are elderly, you might want to
set up remote access to be able to check up on them every once in a while.

I had it set up I could log in each morning when I got to work and make sure they
made it out to get the paper. If not they got a phone call to see how they were doing.
Just a quick way to keep tabs on things without being a pain.

 

[samplenhold]

That's great, thanks. So how about a small business, what would they typically use? Let's say a restaurant, gas station, laundry mat, that kind of thing

A few thoughts in random based on your questions and statements.

Most folks here are really not 'experts', myself included. Most are home DIY/hobby but some have their own professional security cam businesses.

Lorex is NOT owned by Dauha. Lorex contracts with cam manufacturers to build cams for them (known as an OEM). I am fairly certain that Dahua does OEM for Lorex, but it is also possible that other manufacturers do also. Usually what happens is that the vendor gets unbranded versions of the cams from the manufacturer and then loads their own firmware.

Most folks here will tell you that buying a kit is a total waste. Some however have a more open mind. Personally, for me it would depend on the situation. But the big drawback to kits is that they usually are watered down versions of good cams, and the kit contains all the same models. They generally are wide angle, like 2.8mm lens, which are only good for overview work. To get a good face shot, the perp needs to be very close.

I would think that most small businesses contract to a company and take what is ever given to them. There have been several threads here where someone asks about a certain brand which turns out to be rebranded for a security provider. I think most small businesses don't really pay attention to their systems much. They get it installed and have it running, but never really use it until something happens. Most of us home users here are tuned into the cams daily and post interesting videos as they happen.

 

[Mike A.]

Lorex is NOT owned by Dauha. Lorex contracts with cam manufacturers to build cams for them (known as an OEM) .

Think that's out of date...

FLIR Sells Lorex Business to Dahua for $29M; Exits DIY, SMB Markets

The sale marks the end of FLIR’s flirtations in the DIY and small/medium-sized security products business. Dahua had been the primary OEM supplier to Lorex.

February 06, 2018 Rodney Bosch

FLIR Systems has sold Lorex, a provider of DIY and SMB video surveillance products, to Dahua.

WILSONVILLE, Ore. — FLIR Systems (NASDAQ: FLIR) has completed a sale of its Lorex subsidiary to Dahua for approximately $29 million in cash.

In an announcement Tuesday, FLIR said the Canadian subsidiary generated $140 million in revenue last year. The company expects to record a GAAP non-cash charge of approximately $23.6 million related to the sale.

 

[samplenhold]

FLIR Systems has sold Lorex, a provider of DIY and SMB video surveillance products, to Dahua.

I stand corrected. See, I am not an expert!

BTW, there is no chart of recommended kits per dollar range in this forum. However, I could be wrong on that, like I was on Lorex. The kits change so quickly, and most here do not recommend kits.

 

[Shockwave199]

Hit up Andy here, buy a dahua 4208-8p 4ks nvr (poe built-in) dahua IPCT-2431 cameras and 2 purple 4tb hard drives. Around 900 for that gear will get you a nice initial setup. Then if you want to pop in some better more expensive cameras along the way, great. All that plays nice together too. Set it, forget it, look at the cameras on the phones if they need. Done. Don't over complicate it.

 

[ipcamforum329403204]

Well that is a good question.

So let's go on the limb.

What sort of vehicle do you recommend that I buy?

A Honda accord for transporting up to four adults and no cargo typically. A Chevy Suburban for a family of six-eight. A Ford Ranger for a single person with towing needs (up to 7,500 lbs). A dually if you have need of towing horses. See that wasn't so hard when you actually put in a little effort to your responses, huh?

Or give me the same amount of detail I've given you and I can give you a better recommendation suited towards you. Your type of reply is pretty annoying/trollish. Your point is that there are more unknown factors so you "can't give a recommendation without more data" but instead of saying that you resort to the above tripe. No one is interested in that, Mat.

I've written 1672 words in this thread so far (not including this comment) giving you details/comments/questions. I said, hypothetically, I'm a restaurant owner, you're my IT camera guy and I need you to advise me and set up a camera system for me. I've said I want to spend around three grand on the hardware for a camera system. You brought up the req's of wanting to see currency, I said sure, yes. Can I (at that price range)? With what hardware would I be able to do that? I linked a Lorex camera system. I asked what would be better than this, up to a certain price range, for a restaurant, for the previously mentioned "requirements"? If your response to that would be to simply ask me more questions and then when I answer them, give an arbitrary sarcastic response, then I don't imagine anyone would want your input on anything. No one is making you respond here. If you don't want to, please don't. I'm not sure why you feel the need to "contribute" here when it's so clearly beneath you. Run along now.

 

[ipcamforum329403204]

One thing I would mention about your folks. If they are elderly, you might want to
set up remote access to be able to check up on them every once in a while.

I had it set up I could log in each morning when I got to work and make sure they
made it out to get the paper. If not they got a phone call to see how they were doing.
Just a quick way to keep tabs on things without being a pain.

I don't think they are to that point quite yet (~60's). Maybe in 10 years or so. Thanks!

A few thoughts in random based on your questions and statements.

Most folks here are really not 'experts', myself included. Most are home DIY/hobby but some have their own professional security cam businesses.

Lorex is NOT owned by Dauha. Lorex contracts with cam manufacturers to build cams for them (known as an OEM). I am fairly certain that Dahua does OEM for Lorex, but it is also possible that other manufacturers do also. Usually what happens is that the vendor gets unbranded versions of the cams from the manufacturer and then loads their own firmware.

Most folks here will tell you that buying a kit is a total waste. Some however have a more open mind. Personally, for me it would depend on the situation. But the big drawback to kits is that they usually are watered down versions of good cams, and the kit contains all the same models. They generally are wide angle, like 2.8mm lens, which are only good for overview work. To get a good face shot, the perp needs to be very close.

I would think that most small businesses contract to a company and take what is ever given to them. There have been several threads here where someone asks about a certain brand which turns out to be rebranded for a security provider. I think most small businesses don't really pay attention to their systems much. They get it installed and have it running, but never really use it until something happens. Most of us home users here are tuned into the cams daily and post interesting videos as they happen.

I think you are right regarding the small business checking on the cameras. My last company I worked for we installed an AXIS camera system that was basically only used by me (no one else ever cared to look at it). I wish I knew what we paid but if I had to guess, I'd be surprised if it was under 40,000 dollars or so. We had a vendor come in and run the cable, install the cameras (there were a lot, maybe 20? I don't know), and it had a fancy server/disk shelf, etc. I wish I knew what it cost...

Hit up Andy here, buy a dahua 4208-8p 4ks nvr (poe built-in) dahua IPCT-2431 cameras and 2 purple 4tb hard drives. Around 900 for that gear will get you a nice initial setup. Then if you want to pop in some better more expensive cameras along the way, great. All that plays nice together too. Set it, forget it, look at the cameras on the phones if they need. Done. Don't over complicate it.

This is what I was looking for I think. Thank you. The budget sounds about right and I assume it's vastly superior to the $650 costco one? Can you tell me how it's better? I'm guessing just better picture, maybe some zoom, better hardware in the NVR so it doesn't choke up as much as the Lorex one, etc? This is the ideal response that I was looking for. As I said, I'm not trying to complicate it and get NSA level crazy, just the basics but something good for the money. I'm a camera noob just trying to understand. Thank you.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The bottom line is that you're looking for a plug and play, no brainer, system that will do what you want. Since we are not in your head to understand every nuance of what you want there is not a definitive answer to your question no matter how many words you post. All the same cameras, as provided in a system, are not appropriate in every location in every installation is the bottom line here. Yous asked for advice and were given advice. You, apparently, didn't like that advice which is your right and choice. Buy a system that you think will work and then find out, after you've spent all your budget, whether or not it actually does what your want rather than start with one, varifocal, and test for results before proceeding to a complete system. Being systematic is not a bad thing.

 

[samplenhold]

Or give me the same amount of detail I've given you and I can give you a better recommendation suited towards you. Your type of reply is pretty annoying/trollish. Your point is that there are more unknown factors so you "can't give a recommendation without more data" but instead of saying that you resort to the above tripe. No one is interested in that, Mat.

Very disappointed in this reply. Mat200 and others have tried to answer your questions. But you keep on changing the issue. Is this for your restaurant or for your parents? Have you read the Cliff Notes and the WIKI as recommended?

I'm a restaurant owner, you're my IT camera guy and I need you to advise me and set up a camera system for me.

This statement would make anyone here not want to help you. The members here are NOT your 'IT camera guy'. They are just UNPAID members trying to help folks out by sharing their collective experience. If that is your attitude, you need to go and hire an IT Camera Guy.