HikVision DS-7608NI-E2/8P - some pics and first impressions

alastairstevenson said:
What you end up doing with more than 8 cameras may well be a consequence of how your wiring runs are located. What you could do is as follows: Connect as many cameras as you wish into the PoE ports on the back of your NVR. For the remaining cameras that you want also to power using PoE, get a new PoE switch. The more common, cheaper ones have 10/100 ports, and ideally a Gigabit uplink port. Connect the remaining cameras into the PoE ports on the PoE switch. Now you have a choice of how to combine the NVR (which will have a gigabit LAN port) and the PoE switch (which may have a gigabit uplink port) into your network. The traffic from the cameras on the PoE ports on the NVR will stay within the NVR (ignoring for the moment any traffic that results from using Live View or Playback via a PC), so you don't have to accommodate it on your normal LAN. The traffic from the cameras on your new PoE switch will have to get back to the NVR. In aggregate this will be approximately (number of cameras on the new PoE switch x around 5-8Mbps each). So if you had say 8 cameras, that's about 50Mbps, which is about as far as you should probably take a 10/100 LAN port, but fine for a gigabit uplink port. Ideally - you'd have a gigabit core switch, into which you'd connect all the high-traffic items such as the NVR LAN port, the new PoE switch gigabit uplink port, your PC, your NAS etc. In practice, and assuming you don't have a high-end router with gigabit ports that you'd use as the 'gigabit core' you'd just about get away with connecting the NVR LAN port into the new PoE switch, and the new PoE switch uplink port into the router. But if the new PoE switch has a gigabit uplink port, you could usefully connect that to the NVR LAN port instead, and use a spare port on the new PoE switch to connect to the router. The weak link here would be the NVR LAN port into the PoE switch (if the uplink port is not gigabit), handling the aggregate camera traffic, but that traffic would not affect the router, which generally would only be handling your internet traffic. Other combinations are possible. I hope that makes sense.
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Sorry for brining up an older post, but I'm just starting to look at these hikvision nvrs. For the 4/6/8/16 channel NVRs, is that # just in regards to the # of ports on the back of my unit? For my setup, I have that gigabit core router and am currently powering my cameras via injectors and localized POE switches as needed. I guess what i'm asking is, if I have 8 cameras (all poe and powered independantly of the hik nvr) can I simply get a 7604 unit as I'm not really in need of the ports on the unit?

Spec wise/operation wise are all the 76xy units the same, minus the # of ports on back?

also, perhaps the wrong place for this, but how does one of the hikvision nvrs compare against a pc running their ivms software?
 
I guess what i'm asking is, if I have 8 cameras (all poe and powered independantly of the hik nvr) can I simply get a 7604 unit as I'm not really in need of the ports on the unit?
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Nope, sorry. And here's why:
The NVRs are rated 4, 8, 16, 32 channels etc based on the number of camera video streams the performance of the hardware is able / designed to handle. It's a hard limit that's enforced - if you try to add a 9th camera to an 8 channel NVR that has 8 cameras already, the NVR will reject that attempt. The specification of the NVR in terms of how much video throughput it is rated to handle varies with the model, and the number of channels.
The number of channels is shown in the 4 numeric part of the model number, for example 7604=4 channels, 7616=16 channels etc.
There is an option on the NVRs to have the convenience of PoE ports, in addition to the normal LAN port, for connecting cameras.
These come in 4, 8, 16 etc port blocks and are shown in the end of the suffix of the model number, for example 7616N-E2/8P (16 channels with 8 PoE ports), 7608-E2/8P (8 channels with 8 PoE ports).
The PoE ports do not add to the total number of channels the NVR supports, they are just part of it, offering a possibly convenient way mix and match connections and power for PoE cameras.
I hope that makes sense.

There are many other model variants with a bewildering array of names - but hopefully the subset above will answer your question.
 
Just want to add - make sure it's an N-E or NI-E if you want to use the latest WDR "WD" cameras.

EDIT: Also, if you want to use the Chinese 4MP non-WDR range then you need the N-E and NI-E NVRs
 
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@DelBoy Why do you say this? The true WDR feature of the latest 4MP cameras is related to the better CMOS sensor and not to the firmware ability of the camera to compensate high and low brightness areas of the image. Do you have a different information of the latest true(er) WDR cameras?
 
aster1x said:
@DelBoy Why do you say this? The true WDR feature of the latest 4MP cameras is related to the better CMOS sensor and not to the firmware ability of the camera to compensate high and low brightness areas of the image. Do you have a different information of the latest true(er) WDR cameras?
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They support H.264+ and only the N-E and NI-E with v3.3.4 firmware are compatible with this feature.

This and that the H265 Chinese 4MP only work with them, seems little reason to buy the older SE stuff.
 
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Got it, yeah makes perfect sense. the xx in 76xx determines the actual # of cameras/channels the hardware supports. Easy enough.

I have a xeon 1225v3 running blue iris and just wanted to see if the hik nvrs were worth taking a look at (or at least the ivms to get a decent approx of the hik nvrs)

Yeah, the different models started to make my head spin, appreciate the "101" of the model #s!
 
I'm looking at replacing my old D1 system with a 1080P IP system. I have looked at a lot of different NVR's over the past week and I think I have settled on this one. Most of the others I have looked at seem to be rebranded HikVision NVR's anyway. The main limitation on the older DVR's was the recording frame rate across all channels. I want to record 1080P at 25 FPS on all 8 channels in continuous mode. Will this NVR accomplish this? Their website states the frame rates as:

Main stream: 50 fps (P) / 60 fps (N)
Sub-stream: 50 fps (P) / 60 fps (N)

Not sure how to interpret that as I'm used to the older D1 DVR's.

Thanks!
 
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You should be able to have 8 cameras at 2MP@25fps but you'd need to set the bitrate accordingly.

So for NVRs it's more on bandwidth than with a typical analogue system.

The 7608N/NI has 50mbps total incoming bandwidth but supposedly newer firmware brings it up to 80mbps (not sure which one, no one seems to be able to tell me, I'm still running 3.0.10).

Even with the 50mbps bandwidth limit you can have 8 cameras at 1080p/25fps at 6144 kbps(6mbps). Please note this is theoretical, I haven't the luxury of having 8 cameras, I've only got 3 atm.

I'm not sure where those 50fps/60fps limit apply, maybe on local playback. Someone more knowledgeable should help you out here.
 
Michelin Man said:
You should be able to have 8 cameras at 2MP@25fps but you'd need to set the bitrate accordingly.

So for NVRs it's more on bandwidth than with a typical analogue system.

The 7608N/NI has 50mbps total incoming bandwidth but supposedly newer firmware brings it up to 80mbps (not sure which one, no one seems to be able to tell me, I'm still running 3.0.10).

Even with the 50mbps bandwidth limit you can have 8 cameras at 1080p/25fps at 6144 kbps(6mbps). Please note this is theoretical, I haven't the luxury of having 8 cameras, I've only got 3 atm.

I'm not sure where those 50fps/60fps limit apply, maybe on local playback. Someone more knowledgeable should help you out here.
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Hey Michelinman/ Alastair/ Fender/others your answer and others helped me decide to pay slightly more and get the 7608NI-E2/P NVR. As you recall I have a mixture of the International Cams and Chinese with English firmware.

My International cams arrived today from USCAM and they were brilliant shipped out in 4 days. Can't talk highly enough of them.

1. Am I correct in that if the NVR is 6Mbps spec'ed I can run up to 6Mbps cameras for ALL 8 cameras into the NVR ports? This would seem good for me for a bit of futureproof.
2. What is not clear is the simultaneous playback capability of the 8x channels from specs they post. Can I play back all 8x channels at the full capability of the cameras e.g. 4Mp ? Or is there some processing restriction on simultaneous channels?

thanks
 
@hook3m @Michelin Man
Please allow me to clear a bit the relation of the technical specifications between analog and IP cameras.

In the analogue world of cameras, each analogue camera produces an analogue signal that is transmitted over a coaxial cable to the DVR. The DVR processor must convert all the analogue signals of the cameras to a digital stream to be recorded in the hard disk of the DVR. The DVR processor can convert up to a certain number of frames per second, therefore the processing capability of the DVR is defined in frames per second. The bitrate of each digital stream of each analogue camera converted inside the DVR can be as high as in the IP cameras since the transmission distance of the digital streams between the DVR processor and the hard disks inside the DVR is minimal. So since all the analog to digital conversion is done inside the DVR, the limiting factor is that the sum of the frames per second of all the cameras must not exceed the maximum capability of the DVR fps capability. So in the DVR you can define one camera to be converted at 10fps and another camera which is more motion critical to be converted at 25fps in order to capture the motion more fluently. The major advantage of the analog cameras is that they are cheaper because they use more mature and cheaper quality components. The major disadvantage of the analog cameras is the coaxial transmisson cable which is susceptible to electrical intereference and noise over long cable lengths and their limited resolution. In fact the long coaxial cables impose the resolution limitation. Otherwise it is possible to have a very resolution camera transmitting perfect high resolution video over a short coaxial cable but not over a long coaxial cable. However in security systems the long cables is the rule and the short cables is the exception.

In the IP cameras the image is converted to digital from the camera processor into a digital stream which is transmitted digitaly (not analog) over an ethernet cable to the NVR whose purpose is only to receive the digital streams from all the cameras and write them in the NVR had disks. Therefore the camera processor must convert only one video signal up to 25 (for EU) (or 30 for USA) frames per second. The limiting factor of the camera is how many bits second can the camera CPU convert, hence the bitrate of the digital stream. The higher the bitrate, the higher the video quality. The NVR all it has to do is to manage the sum of the bitrates of all the cameras streaming to the NVR (the so called maximum incoming bitrate of the NVR). If the sum of the bitrate of all the cameras is greater from the maximum NVR incoming bitrate, then you must lower the bitrate of one or more cameras. The advantage of the IP world is that there is no video quality degradation from the camera to the NVR, and since the transmission capability of the UTP cat6e and higher, is in the order of 1Gbits per second, now we can have cameras with higher sensor resolutions producing high quality digital video streams. The disadvantage of the IP world is the maximum single length of the ethernet cable which is to 1000 ft (300meters) which can be overcome with additional switches midway a longer than 1000ft distance. The IP cameras are more easily manageable remotely and can have more features depending on the software of each manufacturer and the abilties of the camera CPU used. In any case in the distant future, the IP cameras will replace all analog cameras.

Conclusion: DVRS are specified in maximum frames per second for all the connected cameras and NVRs are specified in total incoming bits per seconds for all the connected cameras.

The above is only a small subset of the differences between the analog and the IP worlds. I hope you find it usefull and clear.
 
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@aster1x To clarify, IP has a distance limitation of 100 meters or 328 feet. Its a rarity to ever need to run cable for those distances except for large commercial installs. To over come the limitation you can use switch at 300f intervals as you stated, but you can also run devices such as these to extend the distance greatly.
http://www.veracityglobal.com/products/ethernet-and-poe-devices/longspan.aspx
One of the primary benefits of IP is that you dont need to homerun every camera to the NVR...simply connect them to a switch and that switch to any network connection. You can easily record to two location simultaneously for redundancy, which is not possible with analog unless you split the signal or pull a stream from the dvr (though that does not provide redundancy)..
 
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@fenderman Thank you for the max distance of the ethernet. I am european and I am trying to converse in both imperial and metric systems. Sometimes I loose it in the conversions, apologies. Also thanks for the link of the length exenders. Sometimes in Europe these extenders can be very expensive.
 
aster1x said:
@fenderman Thank you for the max distance of the ethernet. I am european and I am trying to converse in both imperial and metric systems. Sometimes I loose it in the conversions, apologies. Also thanks for the link of the length exenders. Sometimes in Europe these extenders can be very expensive.
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Yes they are expensive here as well....a switch is much cheaper, depends on the layout...
 
I'm glad I found this brotherhood of this excellent NVR. I too have it and really, really, like it. I also really like their 2CD2032 bullet cams.

I got the cable guy to come and wire my house for them. I'm running 6 cameras straight to the NVR. I'm also running an HDMI cable from the NVR to a computer monitor I have on my main workstation.

Despite all the good things it has, it has a couple of drawbacks:

1) Noise - That little fan in NOISY. I have it inside a closet with light metal sliding doors and I can hear it. I will try to replace this fan with something else soon.

2) Mouse - I've tried a couple of wireless mice on it and I can't get them to work properly. Does anyone know of a known and proven wireless mouse/keyboard solution? I'm only about 8 or 9 ft from the NVR.
 
Someone else in this forum has changed the power supply fan with another of the same dimensions (usually around 5cmx5cm) from the Noctua brand which are known to be of high quality and expensive (comparatively).
 
revvr said:
I'm glad I found this brotherhood of this excellent NVR. I too have it and really, really, like it. I also really like their 2CD2032 bullet cams.

Despite all the good things it has, it has a couple of drawbacks:

1) Noise - That little fan in NOISY. I have it inside a closet with light metal sliding doors and I can hear it. I will try to replace this fan with something else soon.

2) Mouse - I've tried a couple of wireless mice on it and I can't get them to work properly. Does anyone know of a known and proven wireless mouse/keyboard solution? I'm only about 8 or 9 ft from the NVR.
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You can replace the stock fan with a Noctua NF-A4x10 40mm FLX fan, they're bloody cheap on your side of the pond. Just keep in mind the stock fan is 15 or 20mm (I forgot) and this one is 10mm and this leaves a open gap in the PSU housing which you will need to cover with tape, and only flows about half as much at full speed. For POE models and hot climates, I'm not sure how much hotter the unit will run. I would probably use the Noctua on mine as I don't use the inbuilt POE ports. At the moment I just run a resistor on the stock fan which is a cheap way of making it quieter.

Other 40mm fan options are SilenX and Scythe, I don't recall which one of these are crap and overpriced. However, you have to keep in mind 40mm fans are generally noisy as they can't flow much air without lots of RPMs.

There's always plan B, and that is to cut a hole in the top of the NVR and either run normal 120mm fan on top, or you could slip a slim 120mm under the top cover.

For the mouse, I personally use a logitech 2.4ghz wireless, I could be in the next room and it'd still work. However it is a old mouse and don't think they sell them anymore. Logitech stuff is what I'd be looking at.
 
I'm not debating that it does fit, it just leaves a gap in the PSU housing.

At least it would on my NVR, I do recall there is 2 different power supplies in the 7600 series so maybe that other one doesn't have that problem.
 
Although the Noctua would be better. I can't help but think just modding it and installing a 120mm fan is the way ahead. The CFM / Noise of a 120mm is probably 20x that of a 40mm fan.

Scythe 120mm fans are good, not sure about 40mm fans sorry.
 
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